User talk:Vae Victis

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Welcome to Echo Bazaar Wiki!

Hi, welcome to Fallen London Wiki! Thanks for your edit to the Listen to gossip at Hangman's Arch page.

Please leave me a message if I can help with anything!
Wikia (talk) 22:50, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

Difficulties

In addition to adding difficulties like very modest, straightforward, etc., could you also add the percentages?

That way we can figure out the level the challenge is based on so we don't have to discover difficulty captions of every level =)

That being said; it's awesome to have someone editing low levels as well =P

Edit: Also, you needn't add in action req. for things that take 1 action. We expect the readers to figure out that, I think...
Aximillio (talk) 19:15, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Alright.
Vae Victis (talk) 00:23, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

I've just read Jemann's and your post about difficulty levels and I'm a bit confused on how should I place them in this wiki proparly. Here's what I wrote to Jemann: Having read the calculations system I'm now completely confused.

1. How do I record the broad difficulty? Is the formula: [broad.diff]=[stat]*0.66/[%success]?

2. Could you please change the templates so that the "Difficulty" header would link to your post? Because otherwise casual or new users like me don't know what "broad diffuclty" is.

3. Alternatively you could take a look at editting Sryth foe template (3rd-6th parameters) here:

http://sryth.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Foe#Detailed_.28verbose.29

The idea is similar to Fallen London: @9 in Syrth is like the success percantage Fallen London would give when your stat equals the broad difficulty level and it's also calculated by deviding the player's stat.

Could this be implemented here?
Vae Victis (talk) 11:29, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Replied to this on my own wall.
Jemann (talk) 12:51, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Uniting certain pages

I read your comments about the highly similar results for certain options. I replied to one and edited it out because it seemed too spoilery.

This is my original reply:

Pronoun differences of she/he, her/him and woman/man make them two different results. More importantly, this is FL's hint, foreshadowing, or what have you that these targets might be meeting each other in the same dreams without your character's knowledge. ;)

I recommend completing both their storylines before making a final decision on what to do about them (or how your character feels towards them). Love is a battlefield and knowledge is half the battle, blah blah, just do as I say. :P
ZDee (talk) 14:39, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

Alright.
Vae Victis (talk) 20:14, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

How do I progress the Last Constable & Cheery Man storyline?

I'm still at "Family and Law" 1. I'm not drawing any cards or seeing any area storylets related to the storyline, either. Well, other than the A drink with the Cheery Man card but that doesn't progress the story.

The last action I took was to Ask the Cheery Man about the feud. The last thing he said to me was Maybe you can help.' He sizes you up. 'I need a fresh face from the Surface. Someone from outside. I'll be in touch. Let you prove yourself. How exactly am I supposed to prove myself? Raise Dangerous to a certain level? It's currently at 25.

As a side note, I'm shocked you're drawing "Coffee with the Last Constable" cards. I've never seen this card and I favor her with two characters. You may be the only one who can archive all the card's options; older players who favor her have stopped drawing this card a few months ago (many of us never even saw it). Perhaps it's a bug. Anyway, I hope you complete archival of the rest. :)
ZDee (talk) 13:51, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

Coffee is a card?

You don't think it's like a living story with him being in touch?
Aximillio (talk) 18:04, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, it's a card I should be getting but one I've never gotten!! My Criminal-oriented characters, on the other hand, are laughing it up with good results from constant drinks with the Cheery Man. :-[

Vae Victis is the editor who added it: Coffee with the Last Constable

I don't remember the original topic, but some of the veteran players were discussing the coffee card on the official FL forum. Apparently, it was an uncommon card and they stopped seeing it back in January or February. I didn't even know it existed till they talked about it!

My best guess for the next step is also a living story. I just want to know if I'm missing something critical.
ZDee (talk) 18:19, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

I wouldn't know - when I did that story you had to spend Cobblestones
Aximillio (talk) 18:45, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

Haven't had much time for the game lately. Quick answer:

I didn't choose the Cheery Man. I chose the last constable whose storylet is on Ladybones Road. I remember getting several cards related to the story (similar to the cards related to the Cheery Man when you can ask him about certain topics). I'm sure you need Cobblestone Rogues and Back-Alley Saints of 6 to progress with her storylet and that her card was drawn while I was on Ladybones.

Beyond that I don't remeber much, sorry.
Vae Victis (talk) 18:36, April 12, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for the response! :)

I'll continue flipping cards.
ZDee (talk) 18:53, April 12, 2013 (UTC)

Some useful things I remembered:

At the time I was trying to complete every possible storylet (including the "venture" and the reduable ones) so that I'd complete both of the routes that they have (for example: in Needle-wrestling for a prize of rostygold I would finish both Play it safe and Turn it up a notch) in all of the four starting zones.

I also finished two cases for the detective: In the Absconding Devil case I let them elope and in the Starving Poet case I notified the poet.

Lastly, at the time I had all of my stats at ~20, but my watchful was ~30. I equipped a bottled oblivion so that three of my stats were bellow 21, but my watchfulness was over 21 (not by much). That way I avoided drawing cards that had high watchfulness requirements and starter cards that require no stat over 21. I think this helped me draw bronze cards fairly often.

Hope this helps.
Vae Victis (talk) 14:44, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

I appreciate the details, thanks!

I've got a Ridiculous Hat and Bottle of Oblivion equipped for card flipping. Perhaps the cards are location-specific; maybe I need to draw them in Watchmaker's Hill. I've been flipping cards in Veilgarden for the past week in my search for the final Seduction: Honey-sipping heiress & jewel-thief cards; I'll move to Watchmaker's Hill later to try my luck.
ZDee (talk) 15:24, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

Aximillio pranked your profile

Oh, he and his jokes!

* crooks a finger* C'mere... Let's settle this:



http://fallenlondon.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:16827
ZDee (talk) 22:40, April 30, 2013 (UTC)

Aximillio wrote:

Wondering if I can add my data here as well, to keep it at the same place?

LMAO! Sure, hijack his profile when he's not looking. :P
ZDee (talk) 16:45, May 10, 2013 (UTC)

Any suggestions on how we can deal with this?
Aximillio (talk) 17:16, May 10, 2013 (UTC)

Help! I'm under attack!

Maybe this link will help:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AswToOataxZxdFBpQm5rT1ZNOTRSd0lGZGhwb3hPN3c&usp=sharing

Edit: Good - you've got the hang of it. I set it so that only through this link you can edit it. Also, I don't know anything about Google Docs (it's Drive now?).

Edit2:Typo
Vae Victis (talk) 17:30, May 10, 2013 (UTC)

Are you skilled at creating spreadsheets on Google? 'Cause I'm not... We could learn, though!

https://drive.google.com/#my-drive

Click the red "Create" button and choose "Spreadsheet". Okay, that's as far as I can get. :-/ If you know what each tool does, you can make the spreadsheet do super clever stunts. Frankly, I'm sitting on my ass till Jemann makes something shiny and user-friendly for us to collectively update. He does magic when we're not looking.

EDIT: The one Vae Victis made works well, too. He added it while I was still typing this!
ZDee (talk) 17:44, May 10, 2013 (UTC)

This might be selfevident, but I'll put it anyway:

1. I've split it into two sheets - one for rare success and one for luck. You may want to split it even more for regular luck and item conversion luck.

2. Please use the "Data" -> "Sort range" to sort the new actions you put in, otherwise it looks very messy. In case of the Rare Success tab you can just use "sort sheet by column A, A to Z" because the top is locked anyway.
Vae Victis (talk) 20:42, May 10, 2013 (UTC)

HEP HEP IMONFIRE!

So, like, could someone do me the favor of making 3 different pages for "Rare Success", "Luck Encounters", and "Item Conversions (Luck)"?

I'm going slightly more insane than usual due to the fact that I cannot seem to add more rows to Luck Encounters. This is killing my archival mojo. I try to insert rows and I get some error message about frozen turkey or something, I don't know -- someone fix this for me, please!
ZDee (talk) 20:28, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

Fixed it. Previously the entire Sheet was the title - I've limited it to the top two rows.

Apparently I've locked the other ones to A-Z as well. Presumably. I even managed to not remove the headline in the action...
Aximillio (talk) 23:46, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

Retemplified FALSE, as I need a number/blank in order for maths to work.
Aximillio (talk) 23:51, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, gods, thank you! I was suffering heartburn at my inability to add rows.

I just noticed that the RS %'s in Item Conversions (and probably Luck Encounters) aren't correct. They incorporate the failure numbers into the calculations when those should actually be ignored. For instance, "Discuss matters with the Travel-Worn Antiquarian and his guest" in Item Conversions should be ~10% RS with the current data instead of the posted ~5%.
ZDee (talk) 00:18, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, I might have done it a little quick, can you fix it, you think? =)
Aximillio (talk) 00:19, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

O_O

You're asking me to fix it? Do I detect sarcasm from you, Aximillio?

No, hold on, I'm an Administrator. I know what to do in times like these: sit on my ass and wait for a competent colleague to fix it. *eyeballs Vae Victis expectantly* You can't see me, but there is a certain degree of thumb twiddling happening on my side.
ZDee (talk) 00:29, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

For item conversions, the challenge is a luck check, so not sure whether to list P(Rare|Success) or P(Rare) (Probability of rare given success and probability of rare)
Aximillio (talk) 00:36, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

Same goes for luck challenges.
Aximillio (talk) 00:37, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

RS % for luck challenges:

Rare Success % = #rare/(#succ+#rare)

Okay, so for the two luck-based sheets, we should add columns B & D. Then D is divided by the result, and that's the answer to column E for RS % (after you move the decimal point two places & add the % symbol, yadayada). D/(B+D)=E

The first "Rare Success" sheet is even simpler since it doesn't have a failure column to complicate calculations. For that sheet, it should add columns B & C. Then C is divided by that result and we learn the RS. Same formula; different columns. C/(B+C)=D

For figuring out the success or failure %'s of luck challenges:

Fortunate % = (#succ+#rare)/(#succ+#rare+#fail)

Unfortunate % = #fail/(#succ+#rare+#fail)

I have to go to dinner, so I'm deserting you guys for the next hour or two. Again, column substitution is used for these formulas. I wish I knew how to direct the spreadsheet to do it, but since I'm the doofus who couldn't insert rows earlier, you shouldn't be turning to me for technical help. :P
ZDee (talk) 01:28, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

Is it more beneficial to the reader whether we present P(Rare|Success) or P(Rare), though? Would a reader be more interested in the actual percentage of rare success or the chance of a rare success given the fact you've already succeeded?
Aximillio (talk) 02:33, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

The second is the same as the first? Just read differently? It should be read as "This is the probability of Rare Success % based on 100% Fortunate results." The readers should understand that the RS value depends solely on the achievement of fortunate results.

RS is a 2-step process:

1) Pass the fortunate/unfortunate check -

1A) You rolled an Unfortunate result. This is failure and it sucks to be you. Stop and try again at step #1.

1B) You rolled a Fortunate result. This is success and it's great! Now move onto step #2 to see what sort of fortune you've obtained.

2) Pass the regular success/Rare success check -

2A) You rolled a regular success result. Nice. :)

2B) You rolled a Rare success result. Awesome! :D



...Is this better or worse than the theft analogy utilizing porcelain kittens?

The F/U %'s are quite important in themselves. For instance, the RS % of a challenge is 75%. Nifty, right? You're likely to get 3 RS results out of every 4 times you succeed at a luck challenge. BUT this particular challenge's Fortunate % is 5% DUUUNDUNDUN! You will probably fail hundreds of times before you score a handful of fortunate results, never mind that most of those fortunate results will be RS ones.

Vice versa, it can also be awful. Let's say a different luck challenge possesses a 90% Fortunate chance. Yay, you will succeed most of the time! OH NOES, the RS % is a measly 1%. You will probably need to spend hundreds of actions to attain a handful of Rare results despite the fact that you succeed most of the time.

You should explain everything to the readers in the best way you see fit. If people don't understand the connection, then the numbers won't help them much.

They might misinterpret luck-based RS 30% and F 20% to mean this:

"The challenge is split as 30% Rare Success, 20% Fortunate/Regular Success and 50% Unfortunate."

No, they should read it like this:

"The challenge is split as 20% Fortunate and 80% Unfortunate. If and when a Fortunate result is achieved, 30% of those will be Rare."

Would tiny icons help?

* Whoo, you stole 10 porcelain kitties!
ZDee (talk) 04:06, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

You could make a separate sheet with an explanation of what each column represents and how the %'s are calculated. You could also insert Comments into each column header.

I don't know how to get people's heads clicking the right way. They'll either grasp the concept or they won't... The basic and first "Rare Success" sheet is the easiest one to understand. If they don't comprehend the two luck sheets, then tell them to find Alexis for an explanation. ;)
ZDee (talk) 05:05, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

Sorry for dropping out on you all - terribly busy time. I won't be very active here for at least the next couple days.

I like what Aximillio did with the doc! How did you put the data sorting arrows in the column cells?

I put the FALSE there because I was thinking how to use a boolean function to ignore luck encounters without a possible rare or failure result, but avoiding the DIV error. I couldn't get that done.

I've added a regular success% for luck actions.
Vae Victis (talk) 12:37, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

Switched places for success/rare success. Sorting arrows are made by marking the area, then clicking the filter button.
Aximillio (talk) 13:30, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks!
Vae Victis (talk) 13:36, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

What happens if you click this link?

http://fallenlondon.wikia.com/wiki/Special:AdminDashboard

Can you see the weekly wiki statistics on the right and the Administator option buttons on the left?
ZDee (talk) 17:32, May 11, 2013 (UTC)

Already checked while not logged in, it didn't work then =)
Aximillio (talk) 17:34, May 11, 2013 (UTC)

I see an error message:

"You do not have permission to do that, for the following reason: You are not allowed to execute the action you have requested." You admins, and your crazy tricks...
Vae Victis (talk) 17:38, May 11, 2013 (UTC)

I wish we could see the page view statistics beyond the past week. I'd also like to know whether those numbers mean unique IP's (10K+ different people) or total number of page views regardless of IP's.
ZDee (talk) 17:40, May 11, 2013 (UTC)

Vae Victis wrote:

I see an error message:
"You do not have permission to do that, for the following reason: You are not allowed to execute the action you have requested." You admins, and your crazy tricks...

Haha, yeah, us and our tricks! Now that I have super editing powers, I'm entertaining the scenario of pranking the front page for April Fool's Day next year. Maybe turn it into a page for "Fallen London BDSM Club" or something... It's just a thought. ;)


ZDee (talk) 17:45, May 11, 2013 (UTC)

Views I assume - otherwise the number would decrease further into the week as people had already watched the wiki.

@Vae, It's just a bunch of statistics and links to upkeep pages for the bigger part. The statistics are quite interesting, obviously...
Aximillio (talk) 17:55, May 11, 2013 (UTC)

I concur that it's total page views. It probably doesn't count refreshes of the same page from the same IP. That would just be artificial inflation.
ZDee (talk) 18:03, May 11, 2013 (UTC)

You could check it by determining your own IP and then searching it in the list. Is the IP recorded once a day? Every time you open a new page? Every refresh? etc.

Edit: On an unrelated note, I'm trying to meet the regretful soldier. The card says that it unlock with Dangerous 45, but the action to meet him is Persuasive based. Do I just need to draw cards with >45 Dangerous in Watchmaker Hill, or are there some hidden requirements as well?
Vae Victis (talk) 18:46, May 11, 2013 (UTC)

It's not as detailed as all that. It's actually quite vague. Each day of the past week displays a rounded number (up, down, can't tell) in the thousands. It doesn't even have the decency to show us all the digits. For instance, the Date column shows "May 09" and its adjacent Views column shows "13K". "May 10" is "11.5K" and that's that.

It doesn't matter much, though. Maintenance and user accessibility are the key issues. :) I can track down dead link pages, unused images, unused redirects and all that jazz -- infinitely more important.
ZDee (talk) 18:57, May 11, 2013 (UTC)

Draw cards with 45+ dangerous in watchmaker's hill, yeah.
Aximillio (talk) 19:11, May 11, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks.
Vae Victis (talk) 21:03, May 11, 2013 (UTC)

Message from Aximillio

"I don't know what "Item Type(as seen in the game)" means. I also don't know where do you get the large photo of an item."

Item type is under which section in the inventory it appears in the game. E.g. Curiosity, Goods, Infernal, Rubbery, Weapons etc. Large photos are without the 'small' in image name. For this particular image there's no larges, though (at least not uploaded to the wiki).
Aximillio (talk) 16:40, May 16, 2013 (UTC)

I've put the "Goods" in the "Item Type(Plural)" tab, I need to put it in the "Item Type(as seen in the game)" tab as well?

I see that you did add the larger Rat2.png. Where did you find it?
Vae Victis (talk) 17:07, May 16, 2013 (UTC)

Nah, as long as it classfies as goods it's epic =)

I find files by visiting http://images.echobazaar.failbettergames.com/, http://images.echobazaar.failbettergames.com/?marker=icons/eggblacksmall.png and http://images.echobazaar.failbettergames.com/?marker=icons/sidebarwounds.png. I have to update these links when FBG adds more pictures, since the pages are truncated at 1k pictures or so. To find new images, Use your browser's search function (e.g. Ctrl+f), then search for 2013-05 this shows all images changed in the month.
Aximillio (talk) 17:16, May 16, 2013 (UTC)

I never fill in the "Item Type(as seen in the game)" slot. Solely filling in "Item Type(Plural)" usually does the trick.

Background history of snooping in FL's image folders:

http://fallenlondon.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:15921
ZDee (talk) 17:19, May 16, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you! What a nifty trick!
Vae Victis (talk) 21:12, May 16, 2013 (UTC)

Working with the Last Constable (incomplete)

http://fallenlondon.wikia.com/wiki/Working_with_the_Last_Constable

It's missing the two Family and Law 1 unlock options. With an educated guess, the first option should be a simple switch of sides from the Last Constable to the Cheery Man for that story segment. The second option is probably this:

http://fallenlondon.wikia.com/wiki/Chasing_the_Fence

At a glance, I can tell the current version of "Chasing the Fence" is out-of-date; Cobblestone Rogues and Back-Alley Saints is no longer connected to Family and Law. Was this option even named "Chasing the Fence"? More importantly, did you echo the success text to your journal? Either way, I'll be linking it to "Working with the Last Constable" as the Family and Law 1 unlock option since we haven't got any other. I'll leave a note about it needing an update.
ZDee (talk) 17:38, May 17, 2013 (UTC)

these are the only things I echoed regarding the constable:

1. "The Cheery Man's past"

He's hiding in a rookery behind the Spite market-halls, in a stinking cubbyhole a rat wouldn't call home. He's terrified of you until you mention the Last Constable. 'Thought you were one of his. Look, I need to stay lost. I'll tell you what she wants to know, but then she has to leave me alone.' 'The Cheery Man was the guv'nor of Spite years ago. Not even the Masters could touch him. Then he was poisoned. Made him lame. Noticed how he doesn't move from behind the bar? 'cause he can't. Some reckon the Masters was behind it, but it were devils. He never would let his lads sell souls...' As he packs his pathetic belongings he gives you a last piece of advice: 'Your constable - she's a decent sort, but she hasn't the sense to know which way the bats are flying. She'll get herself killed, and anyone who stands with her.' When you return to Caligula's Coffee House, the Last Constable listens carefully. "Of course! That's why he never leaves the Head. And devils! He never did like the soul trade. I wonder. Perhaps I could - no. No, not Hell. Not yet. Not unless there's no other way..." "Thank you. I'll contact you again. You're doing the right thing." She sounds as if she's trying to convince herself, too. [The Constable will be in touch soon.]

2. The second is the success message for Saving the Last Constable.

The 1st looks like the constable version of Chasing the Fence, but I don't remember anything about that story line anymore. Sorry.
Vae Victis (talk) 18:50, May 17, 2013 (UTC)

Wonderful, you logged it in your journal! The narrative text is the most important part, anyway. :D I'll update the page and fill in the blanks appropriately. Thank you for searching!

I wasn't expecting the Last Constable to say what she did... She's become unhinged. She's a real crazy lady -- I like her! I've got the shivers. I can't wait for the next part of the story. Pieces of the overall puzzle are coming together nicely, yes...
ZDee (talk) 19:33, May 17, 2013 (UTC)

Did you receive a notification in your Messages about your Rendezvous with the Last Constable? My alt was sent a note along with the Cheery Man rendezvous item, so I'd like to add the corresponding Last Constable note if you have it.
ZDee (talk) 20:23, May 17, 2013 (UTC)

I really don't remember - I delete all my messages.
Vae Victis (talk) 12:07, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

ZDee wrote:

Did you receive a notification in your Messages about your Rendezvous with the Last Constable? My alt was sent a note along with the Cheery Man rendezvous item, so I'd like to add the corresponding Last Constable note if you have it.

I have it! At least, I think that's the one:



Haunted, fierce, desperate: she calls herself the Last Constable. Meet her in Ladybones Road to find out what she needs...

You have an appointment with the Last Constable.
DrinkKryptonite (talk) 17:04, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

Fantastic! Thanks a lot, DrinkKryptonite! :D
ZDee (talk) 17:37, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

I edited your earlier post, Vae Victis. I relinked "Saving the Last Constable" in preparation for deleting "Saving the Last Constable 2".
ZDee (talk) 18:04, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

The Spreadsheet

You know of what I speak.

I tidied the columns with no Functions...which was originally my fault, anyway. :p Fear no more; I won't leave them blank again.

Before we share the spreadsheet at large (I'm thinking the official forum), we should probably get two things done:

1) Put together a category page for "The Fidgeting Writer" storyline with progress links listed. It starts with an option from your inventory's Tale of Terror!! There's something familiar about this tale...

2) Set up a separate page in the Spreadsheet for "The Fidgeting Writer" challenges. All the numerous challenges in the story are luck-based. The page is likely to get the most traffic and the biggest numbers added:

https://community.failbettergames.com/t/the-fidgeting-writer-doing-the-maths-spoilers/9462

My idea is to drop the spreadsheet link in the middle of that thread later. We would also announce it in the News Feed of the wiki's front page, and it'd be linked to our "Rare Success" page (which currently doesn't exist).

Yes? No? Maybe so?
ZDee (talk) 00:05, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

I don't understand why we need a special spreadsheet tab for "The Fidgeting Writer". It's just seven actions (right?) and it can fit into the Item Convertion tab (because that's basically what it is).

Or do you mean the whole overall input/output gain and probabilty for completting all of the steps + the bazzar PPA value of success?
Vae Victis (talk) 07:04, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Add a section under Item Conversions for the fidgeting writer?

Then they would both be separate and not take too much space.
Aximillio (talk) 08:06, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Sorry to keep you guys waiting. I wanted to finish revising some pages for Seduction: a Rising Artist's Model before replying. (*sigh* The Ventures are such a headache with their mismatched links.)

I figured it'd be easier to view if we had major portions separated: Fidgeting Writer challenges, Dreams-related luck challenges, Heist-related luck challenges, and so forth. You're right, though, Vae; the Fidgeting Writer challenges are short enough that they'd fit into the Item Conversions page. I do want to collect the PPA and Echo efficiency comparisons. We could put such information on the wiki instead. One of these days, we'll set up Guides properly.
ZDee (talk) 08:29, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

On item conversions - would it be a point to put these under item headers such as 'Academic', etc.?
Aximillio (talk) 09:43, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

The problem with different categories on the same tab is that whenever someone has to add a new action then they would also have to put the Data -> Filter on the newly added row. And, of course, users would have to inert rows and such.

But if we decide to do it, then Aximillio is right - we'll need to put proper in-game headers on them (except for "The Fidgeting Writer" which will be in a category of its own). However, that brings new problems - what we'll do with cross-category conversions (like Uncover a cache of souls)?

Edit: BTW, Vyrlokar from the forum already has a spreadsheet for "The Fidgeting Writer" here. So I've added that person's number's to yours.
Vae Victis (talk) 12:05, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

The cross-category ones don't have rare successes, though, so i'm not sure if it'd be necessary to link them. Either way you could link from the item you used - we don't categorize based on what the lucky success would give, after all.

For different categories, I agree, but if we were to list all item conversions that table would be complete, and no longer need realigning.
Aximillio (talk) 14:57, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Aximillio wrote:

On item conversions - would it be a point to put these under item headers such as 'Academic', etc.?

It would be far neater to read and use, yes, but not if it's more trouble than it's worth. I'm shuddering at the thought of someone mistakenly using Data -> Filter on the page. Then again, if they mess up, they could simply revert it if they act fast enough. We could also avoid the problem by preempting everything first: we'll place all the conversion options on the page ourselves. This way, no one would have to bother with alphabetical Data -> Filter or insert new rows for the Item Conversions page.

@Vae Victis

We're not logging any cross-category conversions; don't worry. It's always a regular success; there's no challenge and I've never heard of a rare result.

Vyrlokar sure has a fancy spreadsheet. O.O It's split to show different player results. Did he collect them with a Form or put them all there himself? His sheet even has the cost of fodder spent (e.g. Correspondence Plaques or Brilliant Souls used).

Hrm, the Fidgeting Writer challenges are short enough that we could construct a Form to collect results. It'd link to the Fidgeting Writer sheet. We'd place the Form on our wiki pages and then people could easily record results through the Form if they're inclined. This isn't something we must do now or ever; it's just a thought for the future.
ZDee (talk) 22:49, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

If you put in all the rare successes and conversions than yes, there wouldn't be any problem with headers and such. Not until FL adds new ones, that is.

Unfortunately we don't have a rare success category, so how would we know that all the options are in the spreadsheet?

Edit: OT, are you having any problems with FL servers as well?
Vae Victis (talk) 10:25, May 25, 2013 (UTC)

I'm having a problem with the servers from time to time, yes. How we find all rare successes: open all convertible goods pages and just find it? It's not too complicated, and far easier than editing a word on all storylet 1 pages... (Btw, it's now '|Unlocked with' and not '|unlock' in card and storylet templates for those that weren't. You also now can use '|Locked with')
Aximillio (talk) 11:15, May 25, 2013 (UTC)

I just added subcategories there... Shall I colour them to a light colour representitive for the item genre as well? E.g. Academic green, Carthography blue, wildwords dark etc.?
Aximillio (talk) 11:47, May 25, 2013 (UTC)

Well done,Aximillio. No need to color them - they aren't colored in-game and besides, the colors will clash with the contributer border color.
Vae Victis (talk) 16:03, May 25, 2013 (UTC)

Speaking of the card templates: If a card is available with Shadowy 33-63, do I keep the unlock info and add Locked with Shadowy 64 in the template?
Vae Victis (talk) 18:49, May 25, 2013 (UTC)

Hooray, Aximillio! :) The page is much easier to navigate now, nice and orderly.

Goodie, you added '|Locked with' to all the Storylet templates. Did you update the action and card templates, too?

Like Vae reasoned, it's better not to color code the item categories.

@Vae Victis

Yes, oh my gosh, lots of server craziness yesterday/earlier today (whatever your time zone). Out of the hundreds of times I tried to spend an action, I pulled off eight, and I count myself lucky.

"Speaking of the card templates: If a card is available with Shadowy 33-63, do I keep the unlock info and add Locked with Shadowy 64 in the template?"

I say not to bother. It's just excess work for us, and we already give ourselves enough of that. :P

FL's message is something like "Unlocked with Shadowy 33 and no more than Shadowy 63", so we word it similarly to encourage mental resonance for readers. It's easier for people to remember such information when the numbers match.
ZDee (talk) 01:29, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

It looks a lot better with Watchful 33 to 56 (or whatever the numbers were) |Locked with is when a different quality locks it (like scandal 2 on a persuasive card, for instance)

I updated Cards as well, and I've updated Template:Action a while ago, I think.
Aximillio (talk) 12:09, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

OK, now I understand.
Vae Victis (talk) 14:28, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

I wasn't sure what to do about action options which share the same name as other options. On the Rare Success page, I added Be daring! (from "Start a New Fashion!"). The storylet is Start a New Fashion!, and the action page is entitled Be daring! 1. I hope any confusion is cleared.
ZDee (talk) 01:39, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

That's a good solution. BTW, why you (or Aximillio) think you've made a mistake in the Fidgeting Writer tab?
Vae Victis (talk) 11:53, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

I do, because my the spreadsheet's ppa is half that of the source's ppa...
Aximillio (talk) 13:25, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

No more DIV errors! No more errors at all!

I've added logical tests to the spreadsheet so that if the mathematical function isn't applicable (say, if it needs to calculate a success % by dividing success attempts by total attempts, when total attempts is zero) they will now return something other than an error. In some cases they say "none" (when it tries to calculate non-existent rare successes) and in other cases "N/A" (when there aren't enough data to do a calculation).

Feel free to change the phrases or add your own.

P.S. I still don't understand why Aximillio's ppa is different - it all looks correct to me.
Vae Victis (talk) 21:00, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

Nice Vae! I think I might have counted supplies double or something...
Aximillio (talk) 21:07, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

Vae, please tuck page "Multiple Success" back into 4 Success columns.

It seems safe to delete row #4 "A thieves' cache!" and #5 "Unpredictable Treasures" from the page now that we have the new "Uncovering..." section, right?
ZDee (talk) 15:58, July 14, 2013 (UTC)

Yep
Aximillio (talk) 16:05, July 14, 2013 (UTC)

All done.

BTW, the "inapplicable" label in the new table is there because there is only one result for "a thieves' cache". It'll go away when any other result is reported.
Vae Victis (talk) 06:12, July 15, 2013 (UTC)

Prison CP

"cp - all connected gains have decreased. or are they proportionate to level(my suspicion is level 4)/status(i'm not a person of some importance)/whatever?"

Nah, I think the difference lies in a CP revision on FL's part or an inaccurate CP recording on our part. Maybe a bit of both.

FL implemented the addition of Criminals and Docks CP's for prison actions a couple months ago. They're minor CP's, but they add up to a decent amount if you stay in there long. It isn't an efficient way to boost those faction connections, but it lends an air of believability to the prison experience.
ZDee (talk) 02:25, May 25, 2013 (UTC)

With all these new level-dependant rewards I was worried that it was also one of those cases. It good to know it isn't.
Vae Victis (talk) 09:51, May 25, 2013 (UTC)

Why did you decide to travel this road?

I noticed your edit to "A careful sort".

Out of the various Cheesemonger story branches, why did you pick this one? I'm simply curious. You don't have to tell me.
ZDee (talk) 09:04, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

I just wanted to see them die. All of them. I hate meddlers, and shadowy, murderous and utterly foreign (is FL even part of Earth anymore?) meddlers are the worst kind. I honestly hate anyone that has anything to do with The Great Game and I play my part in it only to see it all coming crushing down around me.

When I'm a significant individual I'll probably start conspiring against the Masters too. Cloaked, crazy zee-toads the whole lot of them.

Edit: Wait, ZDee. You have four character and not one of them even entertained the thought of siding with Alice in that story?
Vae Victis (talk) 09:17, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

FL is inside the Earth and possibly still the heart of the British Empire. Either way, the city retains its hostile status against certain Surface countries, and the feeling is mutual. The problem isn't so much the pawns as the players who decide their moves. By going along with Alice's plans, you'll both be seated temporarily as players. It's probably better not to play the game at all, but you're already involved. Might as well see it through...

Haha, zee-toads. Maybe half of them. The others might be flying pigs.

I'm such a softy. I read spoilers for the different end branches before I made my big move. I chose the road that led to Alice's redemption, or at least that's what I was led to believe. If I hadn't read the spoilers, I would have tried to exit the game by faking my perma-death through hiring the 500 Rostygold assassin. My Nemesis alt chose that road. His mentor was the Fierce Anarchist. My alt killed and mutilated his mentor's body to prevent the Fierce Anarchist from turning into Jack-of-Smiles. My alt was given 500 Rostygold as a parting gift. He later used that same Rostygold to sever his ties from the Cheesemonger. Just like his mentor, he chose his own death to prevent others from possessing his mind and spirit. (It's nice how it worked out that way. I didn't think that far ahead with the Nemesis character.)

EDIT: I'm referring to one of The Protégé of a Mysterious Benefactor branches, the early mentor story. ZD's mentor was the Watchful one, the Ragged Mendicant. Who did you select?
ZDee (talk) 09:56, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

I'm concerned about the physics: Can you imagine the pressure exerted on a cavern at least a mile high and who knows how many miles long? Just thinking about that hurts my head so I assumed that FL is in a pocket dimension with slightly different physics and a small wormhole-like exit (disguised as a hole in the ground) through which people from Earth can enter and sometimes leave. Continuing that line of thought I reckoned that instead of moving the entire underground cavern that houses the Bazaar, the Master merely relocate the portal connecting the worlds and let the new city slide slowly on top of the previously fallen cities. Otherwise why would the Forgotten Quarter be located anywhere near London?

This tendency for instant fanfic is why I can't watch SciFi more than halfway through. The moment they start explaining how everything works I usually get disappointed.

Regardless, even if FL is still the capitol of UK (what about the logistics of controlling a super-power from under the basement?) I'd still expect some human solidarity against the devils, the Masters and whatever else that lurks in that abyss. Continuing the Great Game under these conditions seems almost treasonous. My character has slowly become a sort of single-minded psychopath (my ambition is Nemesis:Dead Wife and still I sleep with pretty much anything that moves. Repeatedly.) who will do whatever it takes to achieve "justice". For him it makes little difference whether someone is a player or a mere pawn - they're all guilty and they all will pay.

I chose the Watchful option because at first I thought of my character as someone who came to FL to watch and learn of that mysterious place. Someone who's there to observe and not to interfere. Now it's all irrelevant.

BTW, I try not to read ahead, but I usually do read a couple of alternative options. When I can't go back on a story, only then I read what I missed. At the end I try to choose the option that is right for my character and rarely the option that seems the best.
Vae Victis (talk) 15:15, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

The Bazaar is supposedly a mile beneath the Surface. The Neath is roughly the size of Europe. Your character remarks on it in prison. Or, um, that's how it went in the prison tutorial when I created my latest alt 7 weeks ago. The mechanics of moving between the Neath and the Surface haven't been fleshed out yet...like, literally, FBG is still coding the transition areas (something with a giant stalactite and a canal). I had the same thought as you about a pocket dimension. It might still hold true.

Clever manipulation of tectonic plates is used to swallow cities, or at least that's how I reason it. The newest one drops unceremoniously on top of the previous city. Of course, that wouldn't entirely explain the Forgotten Quarter's mysteries.

I really don't know if the Traitor Empress still rules the British Empire, or if FL remains a part of it. It's possible Fallen London is a separate sovereign state/country/metropolis of its own by now. The existence of the Fifth City alone is enough motivation to continue the Game. If there can be a Fifth, then there's likely to be a Sixth. Should other countries prepare against it or for it? And since FL is in possession of unique resources and technologies, other countries will seek them for the sake of competitive edge at the least.

"I'd still expect some human solidarity against the devils, the Masters and whatever else that lurks in that abyss."

Yeah, there's "some" like portions of The Church and the Revolutionaries. I say "portions of The Church" because there are several Churches now, the Good Book has been revised in multiple ways for multiple purposes, certain saints had a change of name, and so on. But, yes, The Church still opposes Hell. (Don't worry; I'm not telling you anything you haven't or couldn't read from the randomized sidebar snippets.)

The Revolutionaries oppose the Masters. You have to remember that people rarely say London was "stolen" nowadays; only anarchists use that word. I mean, the Revolutionaries are called "anarchists" and not "heroes" or "saviors of justice". I'm sure there was a great hullabaloo when the city first began its acquaintance with the Neath. The tuned has changed. The Masters have wealth and...peculiar instruments of power. Basically, most of the citizenry have been bought or threatened into submission. Mostly bought, I'd say.

Sometimes I even get the feeling that rather than being criminal, it's simply déclassé to plot rebellion. The internal class warfare can be more important than being dragged screaming into the Neath and pitted against devils, new overlords and zee-monsters. :P
ZDee (talk) 01:14, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

"Of course, that wouldn't entirely explain the Forgotten Quarter's mysteries."

That's it. I'm starting to think that FBG have written themselves into a corner. They've put too many mysteries without knowing how to untangle them.

" FL is in possession of unique resources and technologies"

Like what? The way I see it, a clever entrepreneur could set up an average high-school and harvest enough Stolen Kisses, Love Stories and Romantic Notions to clean off half of the Bazaar in a year.

"The internal class warfare can be more important than being dragged screaming into the Neath and pitted against devils, new overlords and zee-monsters."

I feel the same way. A very depressing thought.
Vae Victis (talk) 15:05, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

Regarding the Forgotten Quarter, there's a hint to its origins in the Feast of the Exceptional Rose 2013 content. You could blink and miss it. You have to know what you're looking for to spot it. Even then, it's just a hint.

Frankly, I believe the Forgotten Quarter is a tribute to Indiana Jones and maybe also the treasure hunter class of choose-your-own-adventure novels. It's more than that, but I view that as part of its raison d'être. It's a big ole haunted house with flickering lights and spooky snakes; there are other mysteries to ponder. Don't let it hang you up.

"The way I see it, a clever entrepreneur could set up an average high-school and harvest enough Stolen Kisses, Love Stories and Romantic Notions to clean off half of the Bazaar in a year."

LOL! Well, if that's where your mind went... :P I was thinking along the lines of Nevercold Brass, bottled souls, Prisoner's Honey, Correspondence Plaques and whatnot. The ratwork we've got here is usually more intricate, sturdier and all around skillful than the products made by human hands or machines.

This is Victorian era London. Fallen or not, people aren't going to go along with your well-intentioned and humanitarian plans unless you're wearing the right clothes, living at the right estate, and holding the right social position. I know, I know; it's pitiful that people oppress themselves and each other when they could be working with and for each other, but that's largely the society our characters live in. We work with what we've got!

Of course, you can also do all the wrong things if you look the "right type". Since you're playing a psychopath, you won't have to worry much about resolving social injustices. You should only worry about how to get those same social injustices to work for you and your goals.

I've got my own little psycho alt. She has a fancy towards being a Master. "Mistress Wines" carries a good ring to her ears. She isn't interested in marrying for the title, either... She'll probably meet a bad end. And she'll like it, too. She's that side of crazy.
ZDee (talk) 00:58, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

"Edit: Wait, ZDee. You have four character and not one of them even entertained the thought of siding with Alice in that story?"

Er, she wanted me to permanently murder several people. That's not a-okay in ZD's book! Even regular murder where people revive minutes later is not okay (but I sadly admit to having done this twice).

Although my psycho alt went along with Alice's plans, partly because she liked Alice and partly because she liked the thrill of a murder spree of spies, she was less than satisfied at the conclusion. She wasn't exactly able to go out with Alice for celebratory tea and crumpets...as you well know.

The other other alt sold Alice out to the Masters. He's a money-minded kind of guy, and it seemed like the most profitable option. Stepping stone to becoming the Cheery Man Mark II and all that rot.
ZDee (talk) 01:19, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

I didn't think about Nevercold Brass, but you're right! Here we have something that completely violates the laws of thermodynamic. A few strips of the thing should be enough to turbo-charge all of Earth's economy. But I fear that like with souls (do they have any use at all? And why do the devils claim that at any given moment there are only several hundred soulless in FL, when I can easily get hold of thousands of souls?), Prisoner Honey and everything else only works in the Neath (similarly to the Empress' consort who needs to stay in the Neath to cheat death).

"Fallen or not, people aren't going to go along with your well-intentioned and humanitarian plans unless you're wearing the right clothes, living at the right estate, and holding the right social position"

Historically, that was only true for high society. The vast majority of the people were nothing like that which contributed to the meteoric rise of Labor seemingly out of nowhere. One of my problems with FL is that it's assumed that I'm high society (even when I go thieving or do some dirty work for the Ministry of Menace Eradication it's told through the eyes of high society) when in fact the Victorian culture as a whole represented only a tiny minority, completely detached from reality (here's an example: We all know how hang up the Victorians were on sexuality. In reality, at that time, the number of prostitutes was the highest in all of Britain's history. By some estimates about a quarter of all women in London have worked in prostitution at least some time in their lives).

My character began as part of the established society. He tried to play by the book; he tried to be generous where he could without rocking the boat. Eventually something snapped and he decided to stop bending to fit a cruel world. He's a psychopath because of what he does, but that's not how he views himself. In his mind there is Injustice that must be eliminated and he is the one to do it. He can't sympathize with the suffering of an individual but he is very much aware of Suffering as a whole. You can think of him as a Robespierre kind of guy - a quite sort that doesn't seek wealth or fame or status, but is concerned only with building an utopia from the blood and bones of people he thinks he's trying to save.

My character would also love to meet a bad end. Becoming a martyr, wallowing in self-pity and self-admiration is very alluring to his brand of crazy. Then again, if he's gone who will continue the Struggle?

"She isn't interested in marrying for the title, either"

Can you imagine the ceremony though?

Pastor: You may now kiss the bride.

Mr. Wines: Kiss how?

Mistress Wines: It's all very simple, dear. Dislocate your upper jaw, move you leftmost mandible, extend the proboscis, mind the slime gland...

"That's not a-okay in ZD's book!"

You old softie. I remember being like that once. The Neath changed it all - the Neath is very good at changing people.
Vae Victis (talk) 11:47, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

"But I fear that like with souls (do they have any use at all? And why do the devils claim that at any given moment there are only several hundred soulless in FL, when I can easily get hold of thousands of souls?), Prisoner Honey and everything else only works in the Neath (similarly to the Empress' consort who needs to stay in the Neath to cheat death)."

So you're far along enough to piece that together. The physics of the Neath do function differently than that of the Surface, but we're not sure to what extent. Actually, some people are already certain of the extent of particular items:

1000 Nevercold Brass wanted! Will pay handsomely!



A few of the sidebar snippets also lead one to think that Prisoner's Honey has been produced and used on the Surface.

The practical uses of souls? I'm uncertain, but they do look nice all lined up on a vanity.

When has a devil proclaimed there are only several hundred soulless? As you've guessed, it's a blatant lie. At any time, approximately 11% of FL's humans are without their souls, or so it's been reported. Maybe the devil meant that there are only several hundred soulless humans of especial value, the previous holders of Coruscating Souls and the like.

"Historically, that was only true for high society."

Are you implying Jane Austen misled me, haha? I was generalizing. You're right that most people didn't have fripperies; they couldn't afford them. They still practiced social etiquette and maintained a stringent sense of morals, though it varied further down the social stratum (and many of those morals are considered dubious today). There were external pressures, but I meant to say it was Parliament who passed the various social reform acts; in government, it was the upper class members who typically held the highest positions. Same goes for the military and religious institutes. It'll be extremely difficult to attain a seat of influence without being one of the upper class. Unless...you're intending to go further with your Robespierre comparison by slaughtering the entire upper class to bring social equality? I say, that's not very democratic!

"We all know how hang up the Victorians were on sexuality. In reality, at that time, the number of prostitutes was the highest in all of Britain's history. By some estimates about a quarter of all women in London have worked in prostitution at least some time in their lives)."

The focus has switched from bare ankles and loose hair to other body parts, but people are still hung up on sexuality. XD Prostitution was quite common, but that didn't make it acceptable. It was regarded as evil and finally outlawed in 1885. We can learn more about the socioeconomic plight of females in the era rather than any inherent sexual deviancy of society. The unskilled portion of the working classes and the impoverished "under/sunken" class who were females entered prostitution to feed, clothe and house themselves. Parents also sold their children to bring income into the household. You're too old to work in the mines, not educated enough to be a governess, unwanted as a maid... What exactly are you going to do with yourself? You're so poor you can't afford your principles... Oh, right, you'd commit arson. :P

There was a staggering difference between the living and financial conditions of the middle and working classes. You're not part of high society yet; you're still part of the middle class. Back then, middling households could afford at least one servant and respectable homes. Considering how you began the game as a fugitive huddling in a crypt, you should be proud of how far you've come!

You weren't born into the upper classes, so you'll have to pay your way there. The extravagant expenses don't strike till you become a Person of Some Importance. You'll know you're a toff when three quarters of your inventory have to be sold to purchase PoSI items.

"My character would also love to meet a bad end. Becoming a martyr, wallowing in self-pity and self-admiration is very alluring to his brand of crazy."

Sounds interesting; at least you've got an excuse! My alt's the self-centered and insouciant sort of psycho. She understands how people perceive morality, but she doesn't personally feel it. She's aiming for a throne of skulls (or roses, or wine bottles, doesn't really matter), so she's keeping her options open by sticking close to Society, Hell and the Revolutionaries. She sees how Mr Wines contemplates and controls the realms of desire. She thinks that position would please her.

"Can you imagine the ceremony though?"

I really shouldn't giggle at interspecies jokes at my age -- or any age, really -- but I let a few rip. :D

"You old softie. I remember being like that once. The Neath changed it all - the Neath is very good at changing people."

I practice a specific philosophy of megalomania: don't let your environment shape you -- shape your environment! I will reform the city into a place the majority of its inhabitants can safely and proudly call home. Besides, I find people more useful when they're alive.
ZDee (talk) 09:04, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

"When has a devil proclaimed there are only several hundred soulless?"

My mistake. I caught a glance of Find out more about the soulless when I was checking if it had the new difficulty set up (I'm nowhere near obtaining a key to any of the late-game lodgings) and thought that she said that no more than eight or nine hundred citizens misplaced their souls. :(

"I say, that's not very democratic!"

As one former revolutionary once said, "When you chop wood, chips fly."

"The focus has switched from bare ankles and loose hair to other body parts, but people are still hung up on sexuality."

It's only natural, but I was talking about the magnitude. At no time in recorded history of Britain was the dichotomy between what the elite considered to be "correct" and what was actually going on in the street as striking as in Victorian times. My complain is that we don't get to see any of that in FL. The story is set in a time when anywhere you looked you could see revolutions - in science, politics, gender equality, economy, demographics - but when I look at my day in FL it's all "high society event, high society event, jewel heist, hired assassinations, some failed attempts at archeology, high society event".

Maybe I'm just bitter because the initial story rush has subsided, but my skills aren't high enough (60-70) for anything interesting to happen.

"Considering how you began the game as a fugitive huddling in a crypt, you should be proud of how far you've come!"

I went from being homeless to a Veligarden darling so quickly that I thought I was merely a toff down on his luck. I guess I'll have to wait until I'm a PoSI.

"she's keeping her options open by sticking close to Society, Hell and the Revolutionaries"

I'm keeping absolutely all of my options open at the moment (my character tilts towards the Revolutionaries for obvious reasons, but finds them too amateurish, unfocused and unorganized) and I haven't picked a side from the Numismatrix. Should I do it at all? If yes, than when should I do it?

"shape your environment!"

Words to live by,
Vae Victis (talk) 15:27, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

I apologize for the late reply. I'm still trying to catch up with reading all the messages I've missed over the past few weeks.

"It's only natural, but I was talking about the magnitude. At no time in recorded history of Britain was the dichotomy between what the elite considered to be 'correct' and what was actually going on in the street as striking as in Victorian times."

That stuff already happened. XD It's history. Literally:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/victorians/reforming_acts_01.shtml

The Age of Reform has passed. Most of the later Victorian era sociopolitical acts occurred even before London fell in 1862. Your character doesn't come on the scene till 1889 (or was it 1888?) at the earliest. We're currently in year 1891. Queen Victoria's reign lasted from 1837 to 1901, so we've apparently got 10 years before we all bite the dust. ;)

It's fairly ambiguous, though; I can't tell whether specific post-Fall Parliament bills transpired and which ones are still in place. Either way, FL is a rubbish abode for most of its residents so there are bound to be upheavals. Much of it is inferred, but much of it is also punched in your guts. Some people don't flat out care for this sort of material, understandably. They only want the adventure fantasy portions of the tale splashed with steampunk flavor. FL deals with many themes, so everything should get its turn as time allows.

"I'm keeping absolutely all of my options open at the moment (my character tilts towards the Revolutionaries for obvious reasons, but finds them too amateurish, unfocused and unorganized) and I haven't picked a side from the Numismatrix. Should I do it at all? If yes, than when should I do it?"

Did you pick a faction yet? If you wait to choose one, you won't be able to reach level 4 in "Spending Secrets" and you'll be barred from further content. (Specifically and most importantly, you won't be able to visit the Iron Republic.) Then again, for all we know, staying at level 3 might unlock certain options.

It's not yet implemented, but you can switch factions. It'd probably mark you as a Turncoat and sundry troubles would hound you. I chose my characters' factions before learning about the various Contacts in-depth, and now I must regretfully change 3 (maybe 4) of them. Just waiting on my chance...

My Seeker alt chose the Revolutionaries and what you say of them is generally true. They do have the Calendar Council to lead them, so there's a hierarchy at work. I suppose you could rise up the ranks; that's what I'm planning. If my Seeker alt isn't in utter shambles at the end, I'd like him to be the one to personally light the Neath ablaze. You might be wondering if I'm speaking metaphorically or literally. I'm wondering the same thing.

I think the Forgotten Quarter was released as FL's first big mystery area in 2009, and it seems we'll finally be able to uncover most or all of its major secrets now. I am all a-tingle!
ZDee (talk) 21:32, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

"The Age of Reform has passed. Most of the later Victorian era sociopolitical acts occurred even before London fell in 1862."

I was thinking more about the rise of Feminism and Socialism. Women Rights movements have been around for some time, but they intensified towards the end of 19th century, while Socialism (you could say that its intellectual branch was formally established in 1884, with the Fabian Society) was very quickly becoming a tremendous force. In FL the latter is represented by one short storyline in the docks and the former is barely touched upon at all (only the nutty parliamentarian and the young graduate cards are related). At least that's how it looks to me now, when I'm in the mid-game.

You're right about the player aspect. I'm not damning the game, I'm just wishing it was more to my tastes - I like political fiction and fictional politics.

I haven't picked any faction at all so I'm completely barred from the Iron Republic. Then again, I'm not a PoSI so it's a moot point anyway. I'm more concerned whether there are any level-locked or trait-locked option connected to the Numismatrix. For example: Are there any stories that demand a faction or spending secrets but are locked for high ability levels? Locked for high traits? If the Republic is the only benefit for choosing a faction I'll stay factionless for a while longer.

"I think the Forgotten Quarter was released as FL's first big mystery area in 2009, and it seems we'll finally be able to uncover most or all of its major secrets now. I am all a-tingle!"

Me too! Good thing I joined FL recently and not in 2009. I can't imagine waiting four years for the content!

P.S. Good to see you're back!

P.P.S. There isn't a Preview button in article comments, but there is one here? What goves?
Vae Victis (talk) 05:20, June 23, 2013 (UTC)

"I was thinking more about the rise of Feminism and Socialism."

I believe social and economic feminism have made their ground in FL. We have powerful social figures like the Traitor Empress, the Duchess, the Gracious Widow, and Sinning Jenny (being the city's #1 lady of negotiable virtue comes with veritable perks). They're generally revered, feared, and/or reviled all depending on their merits. Excepting the Masters, the most prolific economic being is Mrs Plenty, and Mrs F.F. Gebrandt surely isn't far behind. Females owning and managing their own businesses is also common enough. (There are other prominent female characters in the city, but I don't want to mention them in case you've yet to meet them.) Let us not forget the Implacable Detective, the most respected of detectives. That's quite incredible in itself seeing how the city festers with crime.

They haven't made much headway into Parliament, though, as you've noted. There's a severe lack of female presence in politics -- formally, anyway. It's not as if women weren't/aren't politically active; they simply don't hold seats in Parliament except for that one Seeker lady who is not a very good example of model leadership and wisdom...! That should, um, really change. Perhaps the Ambitious Barrister is aiming for such a seat?

The socialism pieces are, well, in pieces. They're scattered here and there to allow you to soak them in at your leisure and to draw your own conclusions; you won't be clobbered over the head with them. I didn't like either faction's behavior in the Mr Fires vs The Dock Unions story, though I enjoyed the story itself. At least one Master entertains the notion that the welfare of the Fifth City's citizens has drastically improved because they now live in the Neath. You can learn this in the Retired 2012 Christmas content.

Players have speculated that Parliament will be the penultimate or final city area for Persuasive and Watchful. That seems rather sensible, but far end game content like that is probably a few years away. Before that, we'll probably be steeped in the politics of the Elder Continent. All arrows point there.

"Are there any stories that demand a faction or spending secrets but are locked for high ability levels?"

You must have spotted numerous Spending Secrets/Counting the Days options which are locked to you because you haven't joined a certain faction. Generally, you can't have fun times with your acquaintances and you'll miss out on many menace reduction options. Items or storylet/card options withheld from you now specifically due to your neutral stance can be accessed later when you pick your faction.

Of course, nothing is set in stone; FBG might revamp the storyline significantly and then who knows where we'll be sitting. This holds true for everything, even the name of the game, so what's the point in being paranoid about it? :P

"P.S. Good to see you're back!"

Thanks! I'm still rifling through the forum and wiki updates that I've missed. Apparently, nearly a thousand. x_x

"P.P.S. There isn't a Preview button in article comments, but there is one here? What goves?"

Not even gonna pretend to understand Wikia's eccentricities.
ZDee (talk) 07:35, June 23, 2013 (UTC)

"We have powerful social figures like the Traitor Empress, the Duchess, the Gracious Widow, and Sinning Jenny"

It also seems that one of the deans is also a woman (the one from Forgotten Quarter's new content). But there have always been powerful women - the importance of feminist movement is that it's a political movement.

... which means I'll have to wait for the Parliament content for all that sweet political drama :(

"I didn't like either faction's behavior in the Mr Fires vs The Dock Unions story, though I enjoyed the story itself."

That was a wonderful story! I really liked how no side was idealized and both were handled very realistically. Which is exactly why I want more of this! The writer are clearly quite capable.

"Before that, we'll probably be steeped in the politics of the Elder Continent. All arrows point there."

I'm looking forward to that.

"Items or storylet/card options withheld from you now specifically due to your neutral stance can be accessed later when you pick your faction."

Then it settles it. I'll be the only factionless Londoner. At least for a while longer.
Vae Victis (talk) 09:10, June 23, 2013 (UTC)

"But there have always been powerful women - the importance of feminist movement is that it's a political movement."

The women I noted are not exceptions to a rule. From what I've seen, equalized civil rights already exist -- but quite possibly only to a certain degree, which is the ambiguity I mentioned. Frustrating, that.

Women's inheritances, properties and earnings are their own, even after marriage. Divorces are no longer biased against them. Females have full access to college and they can become professors. They have opportunities to enter professions previously barred against them; there are doctors, lawyers, business owners, captains, civil servants, and so forth. There is some scandal associated with female doctors, civil servants and probably a host of other jobs, but they're there; numerous women successfully hold esteemed positions. The legal accessibility has arrived. The social acceptance lags behind.

"... which means I'll have to wait for the Parliament content for all that sweet political drama :("

Yeah, about that: I can't discern if women have voting rights. Maybe I just haven't encountered the related content. It would be super silly if they didn't have them -- the Masters have no obvious sex* and they run the city alongside the Bazaar, a sentient marketplace! :P

*Y'all know I speak of a creature's biological birth sex, yes? Not the...other...sort.

There's a large segment of the populace who claim to have no gender, both, or they interchange on a daily basis. That must be quite the headache for those arguing for or against a specific sex.

EDIT: Going over the "Graduate Advice" card again, I find women still can't vote. (Maybe the wealthiest female property owners have the privilege, but it's certainly not a common right.) Those Parliament crumbums!
ZDee (talk) 22:24, June 23, 2013 (UTC)

"The legal accessibility has arrived. The social acceptance lags behind."

I guess you're right. This makes sense that given the large number of non-humans in FL people would look more to what they have in common, rather than what sets them apart.

"There's a large segment of the populace who claim to have no gender, both, or they interchange on a daily basis."

You mean the players? I thought each player supposed to be unique and different from other people in a way that makes ordinary social norm inapplicable.
Vae Victis (talk) 05:30, June 24, 2013 (UTC)

Yep, the players. They're all "current" inhabitants of Fallen London. Their gender quirks are possibly not socially acceptable so much as socially common -- enough that others have stopped bothering to scold them.

It's funny to think we're occupying the same universe but different timelines. In your character's historical timeline, Zee Dee is there as an androgynous person of your acquaintance who might possess similar strengths, but you're the legend with all the awe-inspiring accomplishments:

* The Ambassador repeatedly favors you best at his balls.
* You're the one who changed the tide at the Battle of Wolfstack Docks.
* The Cheesemonger of the Great Game turned to you for help in the end.
* You uncovered the Correspondence Stones in the Forgotten Quarter.



...Maybe I'm just the nearby alley bum who sings perverted songs about "Mr Veils' girls" out of tune. >_>
ZDee (talk) 06:53, June 24, 2013 (UTC)

An alley bum who can stab me in my sleep and send me packages of hellish cats? It's hard to reconcile the social game aspects with the story game aspects. This is why I refrain from any social action until I've seen most of the game's content.
Vae Victis (talk) 07:08, June 24, 2013 (UTC)

Hey, dude, it's your legend.

But that doesn't mean a lack of peers or rivals. ;)

Besides, my choice to live in an alley hones my stabby skills and raises the encounter rate of cats.

* You have moved to a new area: Decrepit Alley.

* Your 'Stabby' is increasing...

* You've gained 3 x Alley Cat
ZDee (talk) 07:33, June 24, 2013 (UTC)

LOL
Vae Victis (talk) 14:34, June 24, 2013 (UTC)

I'm at a point in my ambition where I'll need to the Iron Republic to advance. This means I'll have to break my neutrality and join a faction. Curiously, I noticed that some faction options check for "closest to the University", but I didn't see any way to join the University faction.

Is there a way to do it? Or do I have to join one of the boring, regular factions (most likely the Revolutionaries, even though I don't like them)?
Vae Victis (talk) 22:55, August 13, 2013 (UTC)

masters and revolutionaries are locked, afaik. perhaps you'll be able to get closer to them in content à la the Nadir?
Aximillio (talk) 19:17, August 14, 2013 (UTC)

It's locked in the Choosing a Side card?
Vae Victis (talk) 19:20, August 14, 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, I mistyped. I meant university + masters.
Aximillio (talk) 19:25, August 14, 2013 (UTC)

In that case I'll have to settle for the anarchists. Thanks for the reply!
Vae Victis (talk) 00:06, August 15, 2013 (UTC)

A narrative inconsistency!

Encourage her to political service

"if there aren't any women MPs than who is the Northbound Parliamentarian?"

A major backer from last year's Silver Tree kickstarter project. She was immortalized as an opportunity card in FL. The card was released late last year and Graduate Advice came out in 2011, so there's roughly a 2 year span between them. It must have slipped the writers' minds.

We should file a typo report! The description should read like "There is one female MP and few other ladies within government service."
ZDee (talk) 13:17, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

I've filed the report, but please do so as well. The more people bring it up the liklier The Powers That Be will notice the issue.
Vae Victis (talk) 15:37, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

I zipped an email FL's way.

On a side note, we need you to fill something out:

http://fallenlondon.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:17657#4
ZDee (talk) 15:45, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

Alexis says he fixed it a few hours before my email. Now I need to wait for this card to happen again.
Vae Victis (talk) 21:17, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

He updated the description when he read my email a few hours earlier. :)

I think this says a lot about Parliament and their attitude towards female members... The only female MP is a Seeker. That doesn't reflect well on future female candidates, and they must know it! Or, never mind, let's just see what the new description says.
ZDee (talk) 00:18, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

"(still unlocked at watchful 87)"

Relics! More relics! was locked at 83 when I tried this action ~2-3 weeks ago. Maybe the Forgotten Quarter unlock ranges have recently widened to account for the Broad challenges?

I went a bit overboard coupling living story boosters with my alt's Enquirer reward. His Watchful is now 101 and largely out of range for checking the area's storylets.
ZDee (talk) 01:17, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

With stat-reducing gear and Watchful 80, Relics! More relics! is still inaccessible/invisible to my alt. He's a Scholar of the Correspondence, so perhaps that's locked the storylet? I'm just hazarding a guess. There are so many related Story Qualities for the Forgotten Quarter that it could be any sort of combination.
ZDee (talk) 01:26, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

Rechecked it. It's still on for Watchful 89. Apart from A tour of the quarter it's the only storylet I've seen thus far in the FQ that isn't locked for +10 stat range.

Do you still have the Archaeologist's Hat? If you do than it must be locked after you become a Scholar of the Correspondence.
Vae Victis (talk) 11:51, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

There's no way to get rid of the hat, so it must indeed be locked with A scholar of the Correspondence.
Aximillio (talk) 12:29, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

It might also depend on the Qualities "Hearing Rumours of Orthos/Virginia's Progress" and/or "Engaged in a Rivalry of Antiquities", but being a Scholar of the Correspondence is my primary guess.
ZDee (talk) 12:52, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

"what do you think?"

I likes the new Echo Bazaar page! A. Lot. :D (Wow, I'm throwing out all sorts of smiley faces today.)

It's really enjoyable to sit back and watch everyone else perform tasks skillfully and prettily. Gosh, this is what Jemann must have been feeling for the past month. :p It looks like I've mostly been trailing everyone else's fine work for the past 24 hours... I could get used to this!
ZDee (talk) 07:49, June 1, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for the kind words, but I meant what do you think needs to be added and such. Besides, as number two on the achievements ladder you deserve to sit back and relax.
Vae Victis (talk) 17:23, June 1, 2013 (UTC)

*taps chin* Hmm... The descriptions you used are short and easy to understand for readers. I'm glad you didn't just use the default shop descriptions.

We could still refine the descriptions for the following clothing shops:

Gottery the Outfitter - "Buy and sell most clothes"

Dauncey's - "Buy and sell some male clothes"

Fadgett & Daughters - "Buy and sell some female clothes"

I want to distinguish them further. It's not a matter of expense...but...style? Dauncey's and Fadgett's carry Persuasive, Respectable pieces. Formal wear? I don't want to use the word "uppercrust".

Let me pull out the thesaurus (in order of the ones I feel more appropriate):

Lavish, luxurious, sumptuous, resplendent, deluxe, florid, posh, elegant, swanky.

Then for Gottery's:

Assorted, diverse, general, motley, sundry, indiscriminate, mixed, varied, variegated.

Maybe this?

Gottery the Outfitter - "Buy and sell assorted clothes"

Dauncey's - "Buy and sell luxurious male clothes"

Fadgett & Daughters - "Buy and sell lavish female clothes"
ZDee (talk) 17:52, June 1, 2013 (UTC)

Sadly not all gender-specific shops' clothes can be called luxurious or lavish. They sell some middle-tier clothes as well, whereas Gottery the Outfitter sells a couple of the best clothes available.

It's the same problem I had with the pets shops: Zoologicals sell the mandrake which isn't an animal and Redemptions sell the squad which isn't human.

Exceptions really are annoying.
Vae Victis (talk) 17:59, June 1, 2013 (UTC)

"Luxurious" and "lavish" do have that connotation of incredible expense. What an unfortunate monkey wrench in our gears!

Might alliteration save the day? "Buy and sell fine formal clothes for males" and "Buy and sell fine formal clothes for females"?

Perhaps these:

respectable, refined, stately, decorous



Come to think of it, "respectable" probably works best. It's unimaginative but it's also rather self-explanatory, which is most important in any case. We should be concise with the table descriptions, as simple to memorize for readers as possible.

I like the flavor of words like "hodgepodge, mingle-mangle, mishmash, jumble, melange, medley" for Gottery's but they feel like niche words. Too colloquial, maybe? I somewhat worry about confusing the non-native English readers. "Assorted" is basic but it gets the job done. I am fond of "Buy and sell a mingle-mangle/mishmash/jumble of clothes". They sound better...to me, anyway.
ZDee (talk) 18:29, June 1, 2013 (UTC)

With 'melange medley' I think butter...

Assorted means I won't have to search it up in a dictionary, and frankly, if I need a dictionary to read something the wiki's not that useful...

You can rather call it bizarre/dubious clothing. Although it doesn't all increase Bizarre, it certainly looks the part!

Respectable shops are awesome, since the clothing increases respectable as well.
Aximillio (talk) 18:38, June 1, 2013 (UTC)

"With 'melange medley' I think butter..."

What have you got against butter, punk? Pffffft. :P

"Assorted means I won't have to search it up in a dictionary, and frankly, if I need a dictionary to read something the wiki's not that useful..."

Exactly. I don't want to risk people raising their brows quizzically and reaching for their dictionaries in the interests of deciphering a shop description.

"Assorted" is simple but all-encompassing in its definition.
ZDee (talk) 18:44, June 1, 2013 (UTC)

Assorted and respectable it is then.
Vae Victis (talk) 19:09, June 1, 2013 (UTC)

Two hours later, we have finally reached our unequivocal stance on adjectives for miniature shop descriptions... And people wonder why the heck FBG would need weeks to release a handful of storylets or cards. ;P
ZDee (talk) 19:16, June 1, 2013 (UTC)

They have it easier - anything they write is by definition canon.
Vae Victis (talk) 19:19, June 1, 2013 (UTC)

The Fidgeting Writer

Tried to fix the Fidgeting Writer table again today. Values seem better, but I'm not sure I've nailed it quite yet. For example, I'm not sure if values get wrong if loads of people only add values from Glimpse and up, but neglect the sense of deja vu. 

If you could check it out I'd love it =)
Aximillio (talk) 20:32, June 5, 2013 (UTC)

Nevermind, it no longer makes sense...
Aximillio (talk) 20:46, June 5, 2013 (UTC)

Lets try this in plain English, it helps me think straight before I get entangled with mathematics:

When you calculate the cost of getting an item you need to know how much you pay for all the failed attempts and how much you pay for the first successful attempt that gives you the item. The cost of the failed attempts is the cost of the conversion action multiplied by the chance to fail. The chance to fail is 1 minus the chance of success. The total cost of conversion is the cost of failure plus the cost of the successful conversion action.

Therefore, the cost to get a Sense of Deja Vu is: (1-success%)*(cost of a Tale of Terror!!) + (cost of a Tale of Terror!!). Which is (1-0.7205)*0.5+0.5 = 0.63975 Echos.

The cumulative cost is calculated in the way. For instance, when planning to create a Glimpse of Something Larger you need to take account of failure at the Tale of Terror!! level and the Deja Vu level. This means you need to add the cost of a single Sense of Deja Vu (which, as shown above, already includes the cost of failure) and a single Vision of The Surface to the chance of a failed conversion of a Deja Vu (again, its 1 minus the chance to succeed at that specific action - NOT the cumulative success rate!) multiplied by the cost of the Deja Vu and Vision of the Surface:

(1-success% of A Sense Of Deja Vu)*(cost of A Sense Of Deja Vu + cost of A Vision Of The Surface) + (cost of A Sense Of Deja Vu + cost of A Vision Of The Surface).

Which is (1-0.7178)*(0.63975+0.5)+(0.63975+0.5) = 1.461387 Echos.

The general formula is: (the cost of the previous step + the cost of the additional item) + [(1-success% of this step)*(the cost of the previous step + the cost of the additional item)]

Please tell if this logic makes any sense.
Vae Victis (talk) 08:53, June 6, 2013 (UTC)

I found the logic extremely hard to get right. My own Fidgeting Writer results are at

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Avfj79aNCctsdEN1TXpORG1JR3dJb1cxZThLc0ZycXc#gid=0
Jemann (talk) 15:31, June 6, 2013 (UTC)

It seems we were using your data the whole time! Sadly we don't understand it: You have total cost and reward, but we want to find out the cost and reward to any single action, modified by the chance that you succeed in that action.
Vae Victis (talk) 22:18, June 6, 2013 (UTC)

Your best bet is asking in this thread: https://community.failbettergames.com/t/the-fidgeting-writer-doing-the-maths-spoilers/9462

I just modified my doc to calculate the profit per action if I had cashed out at successive levels. Note that it doesn't include the profitability of the actions required to obtain the 'ingredients', which would generally lower the profit per action. The data is kind of corrupted by the times I deliberately or accidentally cashed out at earlier steps. As to why your calculation is probably wrong, it's hard to say; something to do with mounting 'pyramid' of actions required to get to the later stages? Probability and statistics are tough.
Jemann (talk) 23:00, June 6, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for the added calculations. We definitely need help from people in that thread (and it's not just the bloody writer arc, but we also need to know when our data is significant enough to be added to the Wiki), but we also want the spreadsheet to be as complete* as possible before we reveal it to the masses.

"Probability and statistics are tough."

So very very true.

(*) Is there any way you could add a Rare Success category to the rare success template so that there would be a list of them and it would be easy to see which rare successes need to be added to the spreadsheet?
Vae Victis (talk) 08:00, June 7, 2013 (UTC)

Probability and statistics are tough when the result is so abstract...

For rare successes you can always use http://fallenlondon.wikia.com/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Rare_Success

I might add a category, though...

Also, I might be less on in the coming month, just so you know =)
Aximillio (talk) 10:10, June 7, 2013 (UTC)

Category added. It might take some time to update the many pages for the wiki, though.
Aximillio (talk) 10:10, June 7, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks
Vae Victis (talk) 15:24, June 7, 2013 (UTC)

I've added all the rare successes in the list (except for retired or empty ones). Is there anything else we need to put in the spreadsheet?
Vae Victis (talk) 22:51, June 9, 2013 (UTC)

Well, you have luck checks, but those are much harder to track.
Aximillio (talk) 06:35, June 10, 2013 (UTC)

I just noticed today that Aximillio posted about the spreadsheet:

https://community.failbettergames.com/t/luck-challenges-and-deciphering-them/10689

Some questions:

1) Is there a way to check the revisionist history of individual rows?

During the past week, I had to fix the numbers for rows "The fellow in the corner" and "Poke about among the ruins" because people mistakenly fubared the numbers. It took me quite a while to track down their original numbers, and I want to avoid a lengthy search in the future if this happens again.

2) On the Fidgeting Writer page, are columns A-G the only fully functioning columns? It's H-N that's still wonky, right? If so, we should isolate one section of the page solely for recording success/failure with the functioning columns A-F. Other sections can be used for testing the cost columns.

In a nutshell: one section for active recording of #'s and another section for fiddling with the PPA columns.
ZDee (talk) 04:02, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

A-F is fully functioning. It's only when I have to deal with PPA it self-destructs...
Aximillio (talk) 13:31, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

1. Not that I know of, but you could download the spreadsheet as an Excel document from time to time so you'd have a good restore point. Maybe somebody tech savvy (<cough>Jemann</cough>) could add a script that does that.

2. The entire top part is functional, I think. The bottom half is used by Aximillio to test certain calculations. I've added a note to let people know where to put their results and where to fiddle with the numbers.
Vae Victis (talk) 13:31, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

The only way I know is to check the revision history.
Aximillio (talk) 13:32, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

Shucks, I'll have to remember to download backups every few days. ...You guys do it, too! :P

"A-F is fully functioning."

Well, that's quite handy in itself!
ZDee (talk) 19:41, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

Vae Victis wrote:

1. Not that I know of, but you could download the spreadsheet as an Excel document from time to time so you'd have a good restore point. Maybe somebody tech savvy (<cough>Jemann</cough>) could add a script that does that.

Periodic downloads sound like a good idea...

There's a way to add increment buttons described here. There's surely a better solution for our case though (two buttons per row, with a lot of unique rows).
Jemann (talk) 23:36, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you Jemann!

I've added both a decrease and an increase buttons to the Multiple Success tab as a test. Lets see if it takes well.
Vae Victis (talk) 05:43, July 25, 2013 (UTC)

Don't think it actually works... It just makes the title NaN1 or somesuch...
Aximillio (talk) 14:11, July 25, 2013 (UTC)

You need to click on a cell you want to increase or decrease, make sure it's highlighted with the blue frame and then click on the increase/decrease button. Cells with no numbers or with names will get a number in the end. "NaN1" sounds like you tried to increase a title's numeric value by 1.

Edit: Forget it. Reading the paragraph above I realized that the buttons are next to useless even if they do work properly. They're too complicated, too slow and have only novelty value. Feel free to remove them.
Vae Victis (talk) 17:06, July 25, 2013 (UTC)

Ah, right, now I see...
Aximillio (talk) 18:06, July 25, 2013 (UTC)

Is there any way we can improve the speed of the current button scripts? Surely, there are other increment scripts which run faster? I tried to find a spreadsheet shortcut for adding and subtracting values, but I failed... :-/

The buttons seemed unnecessary to me at first, but after a prolonged think, they now seem helpful to those using a touchscreen or if quadruple digit numbers need altering.
ZDee (talk) 21:49, August 1, 2013 (UTC)

"Either this entire storylet has been retired, along with all other acquaintances or it was locked somehow."

The Acquaintance visits have moved from being area-specific storylets to an opportunity card entitled "A Visit". Its icon is fog.

I haven't personally encountered the card, so I don't know how to map it here or which Acquaintance pages to retire (if any).
ZDee (talk) 07:48, June 28, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the info!

Why would they do that? Those storylets weren't broken or OP in any way and they were the best way to find out your exact connection CP.
Vae Victis (talk) 12:32, June 28, 2013 (UTC)

I've got a screenshot here. Hope this helps. A Visit
203.117.37.36 12:59, June 28, 2013 (UTC)

It helps a lot, thanks! We still need the actual actions to see if it just redirects to previous storylets or has some new content.

Edit: Added A Visit
Vae Victis (talk) 13:08, June 28, 2013 (UTC)

I would expect it just redirects. Try some and see.
Aximillio (talk) 13:19, June 28, 2013 (UTC)

Well, I got the card again on my alt and upon choosing the Sardonic Singer option, I was directed to this intermediate storylet , then to here. The same old acquaintance storylet.
203.117.37.36 13:28, June 28, 2013 (UTC)

Just documented the card. Looks like each option takes you to where the acquaintance used to hang out and triggers the original storylet. Maybe the devs didn't like how the acquaintances were being used (as a fast way of cycling through Counting the Days)?
Jemann (talk) 13:38, June 28, 2013 (UTC)

Maybe this means they're gonna soon release a real kickass item or storyline tied to Marks of Credit pages and/or your "A Pocketful of Loose Change" score as Unlock requirements. Can't go 'round making it too easy.

EDIT: For instance, with the Christmas 2012 content, you were able to earn a Master's favor by playing a Consonant Violin. You could only get the violin through an exchange of Marks of Credit, though. I rushed through visits with my Acquaintances to acquire enough Credit pages to buy the violin within days of encountering the Master... It would have been impossible if the Acquaintances were all linked to a card like they are now.
ZDee (talk) 23:08, June 28, 2013 (UTC)

AWARD ALERT!

I drew the card earlier and visited the Sardonic Music-Hall Singer. Two of her options had a significant challenge boost; they're both high Persuasive challenges. The rewards have probably changed to reflect the increased difficulty. The narrative text might have changed, too, so please record it if you spot it.

We'll have to check the other Acquaintances to see if their challenges, text and rewards have changed, too. It's quite likely.
ZDee (talk) 02:37, June 29, 2013 (UTC)

The Bonfire of the Decencies

Pray tell, where did you draw this rare card?
ZDee (talk) 23:11, June 30, 2013 (UTC)

The docks. Nedemmons was right - that looks like an area specific card.
Vae Victis (talk) 01:39, July 1, 2013 (UTC)

Ah, okay. I'll mark it as such.
ZDee (talk) 01:48, July 1, 2013 (UTC)

challenge info

thanks for fleshing out the black ribbon duel pages!

please don't record the numbers for running battle if they're lower than the unlock number, though. for example:

http://fallenlondon.wikia.com/wiki/A_duel_to_the_death_with_Feducci

a player can't even choose that option till they have at least 15 running battle, so start with the unlock number and work up to straightforward 100% from there.
ZDee (talk) 07:07, July 2, 2013 (UTC)

OK
Vae Victis (talk) 08:26, July 2, 2013 (UTC)

I don't if I should be happy or angry. I was building my Running Battle to fight Feducci, but since I saw that the tiger fight has no failure I though I could fight a tiger, fail and enter the description. Sure, I'd take a hit to my Wounds and Running Battle, but it's unlikely to be anything major.

Guess what! I fight the bloody tiger with just 30% chance of success and defeat the stupid beast. Now I have to build up my Running Battle from scratch!
Vae Victis (talk) 08:58, July 2, 2013 (UTC)

lol, i am overjoyed that someone is finally getting around to filling the black ribbon failures!

i know you can no longer attempt the friendly duel with vendrick so i'll try it with harmony when i get the chance; he's still mucking around the labyrinth shops so his stats are frozen at the 70's to 80's. it'll probably be months before he leaves.
ZDee (talk) 09:09, July 2, 2013 (UTC)

...and it happened again. I now think the best way to succeed in something is to wait until you only have 30% chance of success.
Vae Victis (talk) 15:36, July 3, 2013 (UTC)

haha, yeah. i've occasionally succeeded at 10-40% challenges when i really wanted to fail so i could record the info. i try to reserve my frustration for the 90-99% unintentional failures... logically i know 90-99% is not 100% but it's still a hard emotional blow.
ZDee (talk) 22:49, July 3, 2013 (UTC)

I didn't know there were any 99% fails. I thought it capped at 90% (a.k.a. almost impossible gives 10% of success).
Vae Victis (talk) 23:52, July 3, 2013 (UTC)

FL's broad system starts at 10% and ends at 100%. with the way alexis spoke of it when the system was initially released, i thought it would cap somewhere from 90-99% for a very small but ever-present chance of failure. maybe he weighed the pros of game balance versus the cons of player hate mail, and decided it'd be better to sacrifice some of the first to avoid the second. XD
ZDee (talk) 00:10, July 4, 2013 (UTC)

On Opening a Bundle of Oddties...

How should we "combine" my records on Category_talk:Opening_a_Bundle_of_Oddities and your Vae_Victis/Sortable_Bundle_of_Oddoties? Your table looks great, but I'm not exactly sure how should I touch it. Also, should we make seperate form for results from From handing out coffee: ( Something unexpected )? 
Nedemmons (talk) 09:53, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

Sortable tables can be made by putting class="wikitable sortable" into any table (i.e. adding the word 'sortable' to class="wikitable" that's already at the top of the table). This will work for the table in Category:Opening_a_Bundle_of_Oddities, but not for your list, unless you'll redo it as a wiki table.

At any rate, I still have some trouble with Wikia loading and tables are the most susceptible, so I decided to avoid them for now. Originally I couldn't get sortable tables to center properly but I don't know if that's the loading problem acting up or anything else.

Edit: Isn't Something_unexpected retired?
Vae Victis (talk) 17:43, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

"please don't put any spoilers for Fate-locked options - even vague spoilers!"

Hahaha. Please don't panic. I know some of the editors are currently tense about the wiki's well-being, but the situation isn't as horrendous as it may seem. Everything will definitely be resolved and shortly. Anyway, back to http://fallenlondon.wikia.com/wiki/Forgotten_Quarter_Expeditions?diff=next&oldid=66238

What Spacemarine9 originally wrote was vague and fine in itself:

When your Supplies drop below 10, an emergency option (A supply cache!) becomes available. It costs Nex, and quite a bit, so it's only worthwhile if you're really desperate.

You changed it to this:

When your Supplies drop below 10, an emergency Fate-locked option (A supply cache!) becomes available.

While I do not share your reason for its change (too spoilerish), I believe your alteration was for the better. Here's why:

# FBG will probably read the Guides, if nothing else here. (By "FBG", I actually mean "Alexis, that nutty reader guy", but it's possible the other staff members will read them.)
# They'll be all *SAD FACE* if you write that FL's Fate-locked options are "only worthwhile if you're really desperate". (I'm cracking up just thinking about this scenario. We can always blame Spacemarine9 if that happens.)
# It's probably best to keep your opinions of Fate-locked options neutral in the main article. BUT in the Comments, feel free to say "It costs quite a bit of Nex, so it's only worthwhile if you're really desperate!" or whatever else you think about their value. (Nothing detailed but enough to get your point across.) Think of it as the difference between an objective editor's article in a newspaper and a subjective opinion column of that same newspaper. :)

Vae, perhaps you're on edge because I wrote this:

http://fallenlondon.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:20376#3

I've purchased both of the Fate options mentioned, Spacemarine9's "A supply cache!" story branch and Nedemmons' Soul Trade storyline. That's why I knew Nedemmons' helpful tidbits were too detailed while Spacemarine9's tip was acceptably vague (well, I would have thought so even without purchasing it). It's not always obvious; I haven't bought every Fate option. Everyone should use their best judgment to decide if something is unacceptably detailed or acceptably vague. That's all, folks.
ZDee (talk) 21:45, September 25, 2013 (UTC)

You're right - I'm edgy like everyone else at the moment. Hopefully Spacemarine9 wasn't upset by my edit. And I'll try to keep my cool.
Vae Victis (talk) 22:03, September 25, 2013 (UTC)

I'm mad as hell and I'm pulling all my guides from the wiki until I get a 1000-word written apology from each of the wiki admins.





No, really, I don't actually care at all. I just sorta thought it was a bit of a redundant change; the fact it costs a lot of Nex isn't really a spoiler as to the storylet's contents, and the branch itself says to only use it if you're desperate to continue an Expedition!
Spacemarine9 (talk) 12:23, September 26, 2013 (UTC)

"I'm mad as hell and I'm pulling all my guides from the wiki until I get a 1000-word written apology from each of the wiki admins"

---

If I had the time I'd take this as a challenge to start writing ratmessage ver. 2
Aximillio (talk) 16:00, September 26, 2013 (UTC)

I'm glad you don't mind. I kept the link to A supply cache! so that people could read it exactly as it appears in the game, just to be on the safe side. BTW, thank you for your guides! They're excellent!
Vae Victis (talk) 16:19, September 26, 2013 (UTC)

I'm going to take this opportunity to get this off my chest: ooh, the fate-locked content for "A supply cache!" is super creepy! XD

I was both desperate and curious during an expedition, so I purchased it. I felt as if I had been transported from My Little Pony to Silent Hill. It's the first and only time I've thought to myself, Ye gods, I'm glad this game isn't a video game. The expedition supplies I gained were merely an afterthought to getting the hell away, haha. I really enjoyed the writing, though. It was very intriguing teaser/foreshadowing content of sorts; it introduced things I hadn't read anywhere else in FL, confirmed a few suspicions I had, and it inspired a deluge of new questions. I reread everything several times before I even glanced at the rewards. Regardless, I think the option would be better knocked down to a cost of 10-15 Fate; more players would be inclined to buy it.

" ... and the branch itself says to only use it if you're desperate to continue an Expedition!"

Yeah, I knew right away that it was FBG's Consumer warning to be interpreted as "You're likely to feel ripped off after buying this!" :D
ZDee (talk) 17:52, September 26, 2013 (UTC)

Welcome to the Responsibility Party, fellow admin of Doom & Gloom! :)

More political than fun, sadly.

Please send a PM to Aximillio at the FBG forum with your email. He can compile and forward you the conversations Jemann, Aximillio, and I have had with FBG. Your verbal input and technical assistance will be appreciated. LOTS of technical assistance as you'll soon learn... :P
ZDee (talk) 21:53, September 25, 2013 (UTC)

Blimey. I won't even get my 100 days of grace.

I've sent Aximillio my email.

...and thank you! :)

BTW, is there a way for me to follow all pages on the wiki, instead just the ones I've edited?
Vae Victis (talk) 22:12, September 25, 2013 (UTC)

Looked around, but I didn't find an option for following every wiki page. Doesn't matter, though; there are far better options available to an admin for tracking down fiddly pages. Enter your Admin Dashboard, and click the upper "Advanced" tab to see all the maintenance tools available. It's quite a lot! I haven't even used half of them... :P

If you just want to track the wiki's edits through email, hover your mouse over your username (upper right corner of the page). Click "My Preferences" and then its "Email" tab. Scroll to the bottom and check off the box which emails you every time someone edits the wiki. Not sure if this link works for you, but this is the page for me:

http://fallenlondon.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-emailv2
ZDee (talk) 22:32, September 25, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! I didn't know I could be emailed whenever someone edits.

I'm going over the dashboard right now. I kinda expected more of it.
Vae Victis (talk) 22:46, September 25, 2013 (UTC)

Glowing doohickeys and flashing thingamabobs? Zany schematics? Graphs?? Alas, there is but a single statistic grid.

Jemann is a Bureaucrat, though. I can only imagine the fancy dashboard he must use! More likely than not, he probably gets more statistic grids.
ZDee (talk) 22:52, September 25, 2013 (UTC)

Actually that's all fine. I knew I can't see visitors for each page, but I at least wanted to see how many unique views vs total views we have. No such luck. But at least I know that Wikia thinks we have 22 million registered users (of which only 20 are active - talk about the 0.0001 percent!).
Vae Victis (talk) 23:03, September 25, 2013 (UTC)

"I knew I can't see visitors for each page, but I at least wanted to see how many unique views vs total views we have."

That's what I want to know, too! I can't tell if Wikia's "Views" mean unique IP views or total page views. I just assume that they're total page views, but I seriously don't know.

"But at least I know that Wikia thinks we have 22 million registered users (of which only 20 are active - talk about the 0.0001 percent!)."

I--what?? LOL! 22 million registered users for the entire Wikia domain and a few dozen active users for the FL wiki...yeah? But, seriously, the site has 22 million accounts? Would have never guessed it!
ZDee (talk) 23:12, September 25, 2013 (UTC)

It's just 67 local users. But you have to go to List Users to see that. Wikia just can't go a day without a silly bug.
Vae Victis (talk) 23:26, September 25, 2013 (UTC)

i suggest we use the ~ sign when we don't know the exact cp, to differentiate from when there is an actual range in possible gains

That's probably a good idea, actually. Will try to remember.
Aximillio (talk) 13:13, October 9, 2013 (UTC)

Rare/Multiple Success qualifiers

http://fallenlondon.wikia.com/wiki/Rumours_of_treasure?diff=68518&oldid=68505

I actually believe "Rumours of treasure" belongs in the spreadsheet's Rare Success page. It's confusing to have other high (~20-40%) "rare" success options on that page but not Rumours. The only reason I didn't move Rumours from page Multiple Success to Rare Success is because I like having it there up high on Multiple Success for convenience's sake (I've filled it out at least 1,000 times); I find it irritating enough to move constantly from one Forgotten Quarter spreadsheet row to the next as I record a 10-action session of the FQ's Seeking Curios (it's far more than 10 times if all my alts are hitting up that spot). Besides, the better Rumours result is technically rare in FL's system code.

Perhaps the page Multiple Success should only be reserved for story branches that contain 3 or more success results.
ZDee (talk) 23:46, October 19, 2013 (UTC)

I prefer having any success with >25% rate be deemed "alternative". There is no way that a 40% chance can be considered "rare". Naming it just because that's the name in StoryNexus is not always useful.
Vae Victis (talk) 05:48, October 20, 2013 (UTC)

Mm, I don't particularly mind either way; those results are not seriously rare. It is better to be consistent, though. Then the actions with 25%+ rate from Rare Success should be moved to Multiple Success, or alternately, moved back should they prove to be lower than 25% later.
ZDee (talk) 00:56, October 21, 2013 (UTC)

I agree. I highlighted in the spreadsheet the actions that are >25% and that are borderline close to that. Some of those actions have too few tries to be sure that they have a high chance as they say. Look over them and tell me which ones you think we should move.

I'll keep a note on the rare tab in front of any action that I'll move explaining the situation so that people won't get confused.
Vae Victis (talk) 08:09, October 21, 2013 (UTC)

Actions which seem to need a move:

1) ...a Sealed Archive (I filled in over 90% of its numbers, and the alternate success was fairly common among all my chars)

2) Advance your friendship to a condition of intimacy

3) Arrive fashionably late

4) Speak to private individuals

5) Tell a risqué joke

"Some of those actions have too few tries to be sure that they have a high chance as they say."

That really bothers me, too. Unfortunately, most of those actions are difficult to repeat (high unlock requirements, story conclusions, out-leveled, etc.) which is why I suggested moving them back to page Rare Success should they prove to be lower than 25% "later" (as in whenever the heck people have time for them, which may be never -- sad, but true).
ZDee (talk) 00:07, October 22, 2013 (UTC)

This is directed at you:

http://fallenlondon.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:20797

Just making sure you know. :P

On a side note, it's hilarious that you chose orange and yellow colors to highlight the Rare Success rows that need a move; I suppose you're going with a Halloween color theme. Garish but festive?
ZDee (talk) 02:17, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, I've been busy lately. I'll get on everything ASAP.
Vae Victis (talk) 19:31, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

An Exchange of Confessions

Are you not participating in the "festivities?"

Or maybe you have, and I just didn't recognize you. Stop being so elusive! I have absolution cake and wine to feed you! Promise not to sell your secrets to the Masters... (Yeah, there's no "I" in that last sentence, haha.)
ZDee (talk) 01:11, November 13, 2013 (UTC)

You're right - I didn't do any of the confessions because, well, I'm secretive and paranoid. I'll PM you my character if you want (I have wounds over 3 and if need be I'll raise the other menaces as well). Funny thing: You know I couldn't find you in the forums until Aximillio told what nick you and Jemann were using.
Vae Victis (talk) 21:46, November 13, 2013 (UTC)

I'm going to bombard you with requests, so get cracking on those menaces! *whip* ;)

I wanted "Zeedee" for my wikia account, but someone stoles it first!
ZDee (talk) 23:09, November 13, 2013 (UTC)

ZD loves Sparring Bouts. Send all bouts to him! Bouts are an important part of his "3 square meals per day" diet.
ZDee (talk) 00:06, November 16, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. I will.
Vae Victis (talk) 00:07, November 16, 2013 (UTC)

GIMME YO CARD

I can't craft a proper calling card for you till I return to London. I'll be at zee for a few more days at the least. Won't you send me your calling card from your lodgings instead, please? ...So that we may at last be Acquainted? Why be strangers? :P
ZDee (talk) 02:59, December 4, 2013 (UTC)

Sure thing! I'll send to all of your accounts.
Vae Victis (talk) 04:03, December 5, 2013 (UTC)

~Ooh!~

What adorable Paint-Besplattered Mog Christmas cards, thank you! Coincidentally, Dangerous is the lowest stat across all my characters, so the cat cards are quite welcome. XD
ZDee (talk) 04:29, December 5, 2013 (UTC)

Glad to be of help. Did you notice anything about making waves CP? When you accept cards, do some of them give Making Waves and others not? Is it dependent on the stat?
Vae Victis (talk) 04:33, December 5, 2013 (UTC)

It seems to be a consistent 5 CP of Making Waves upon delivery of the Christmas cards.
ZDee (talk) 04:42, December 5, 2013 (UTC)

Deletion.

http://fallenlondon.wikia.com/wiki/Day_1:_A_Peevish_Visit_from_Mr._Sacks%3F Hey, could you delete this page? It's the one I created before you made yours and all that confusion happened, and yours is much more correct.
MidnightVoyager (talk) 07:16, December 24, 2013 (UTC)

It is done.
Vae Victis (talk) 17:47, December 25, 2013 (UTC)

A thieves' cache!

Well, it took me some time but I finally got the data you're looking for at A thieves' cache!. The Alternative success "A spirifer strayed" should give CP + 1 for Archaeologist since it took me exactly five visits to the cache to get my Archaeologist up to 5 from the time I hit Archaeologist 4.
Pyrodinium (talk) 10:34, January 30, 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for your wonderful work!

I see that Aximillio has already entered that info. I did remove the old level cap which is no longer relevant.
Vae Victis (talk) 14:06, January 30, 2014 (UTC)

Testing Wikia message bug

Testing 1 2 3. Why does it say I'm not logged in when I am?!
Vae Victis (talk) 18:18, February 5, 2014 (UTC)

Message from Aximillio

http://fallenlondon.wikia.com/wiki/An_implausible_penance?diff=prev&oldid=86761 http://fallenlondon.wikia.com/wiki/An_implausible_penance

Which do you prefer?
Aximillio (talk) 20:40, June 5, 2014 (UTC)

The latter. Looks excellent.
Vae Victis (talk) 09:54, June 7, 2014 (UTC)

Mind if I remove the italics under Game Instructions and Success Instructions? It looks horrible on pages like A Confrontation with a Rival, where game instructions actually make up a sizable chunk of text.
Aximillio (talk) 13:59, June 7, 2014 (UTC)

How the instruction appear in the game? If they're without italics then sure, otherwise I prefer to stick with the original appearance. Punish Alexis for using ugly text :P
Vae Victis (talk) 13:16, June 9, 2014 (UTC)

Quirks

Thread:27623
Aximillio (talk) 23:36, October 27, 2014 (UTC)

An unfortunate mistake

I've mistakenly created an unnecessary page that was supposed to be a category - now that I have created the right thing, could you please delete that one? Or should I just do it through delete template - I'm not sure I've understood how it works. Thanks in advance and sorry for disturbance
ShiningPear (talk) 19:53, November 12, 2014 (UTC)

It's always nice if you add the delete template for articles you want deleted, then we're sure to not miss it. I changed it to redirect to the category page, instead. Hope that's okay?
Aximillio (talk) 21:01, November 12, 2014 (UTC)

The answer toNightmares?

we need some field data from this option to figure out how stat changes are depending on your current nightmares and whether or not you are correct about the appalling secrets.

since basically everyone is drawing this card all the time anyway, what do you think about putting a little 'ad' for this on the home page?
Mfive (talk) 12:06, November 26, 2014 (UTC)

It's just one card (btw, you can avoid drawing it if you have A Remote Address) - the main message is reserved to things that concern many cards.

I thought that the CP for that card was figured out, but I'll keep collecting data.
Vae Victis (talk) 00:26, November 28, 2014 (UTC)

Editing the Companions page

Would it be alright if I marked which companions are from the Feast of the Exceptional Rose? Along the same lines, hunting back through the Feast of 2013 pages, there's a number of companions that seem to require fate locked levels of Masquing (eg. the devils), but aren't marked as such. The corresponding page for gaining Masquing that year, Present a Rose-Gift, only allowing gains of masquing up to 25, the devils both costing 100 each.

Was there another non-fate locked source of Masquing in 2013 that allowed an individual to hit Masquing that high?
Wbnh (talk) 13:48, November 26, 2014 (UTC)

No, there wasn't. At least not that I'm aware of.

Go right ahead and mark them appropriately :)
Vae Victis (talk) 00:19, November 28, 2014 (UTC)

Dancing in 2013 was uncapped. Dancing in 2014 was capped, however.
98.141.11.50 01:22, November 28, 2014 (UTC)

I'll mark feast companions as such as well as said higher masquing companions as previously not fate-locked then.
Wbnh (talk) 01:55, November 28, 2014 (UTC)

Holiday events and retiring

We had a discussion on this subject over at Category talk:Retired. If you have time it'd be nice if you could voice your opinion. (As well as other people's)
Aximillio (talk) 21:06, December 31, 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the notice. I haven't been active lately. Sorry you had to shoulder all of the burden.
Vae Victis (talk) 20:17, January 1, 2015 (UTC)

Luckily I got some help from others as well =)
Aximillio (talk) 20:22, January 1, 2015 (UTC)

Welcome back!

Hi. Welcome back! — Aximillio _(Talk) 19:09, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, it's great that you're still around. I think this current wiki is too complex for me, so I'll be offering only occasional edits. Keep doing the good work! - Vae Victis (talk) 23:06, 24 September 2021 (UTC)