User talk:Nedemmons

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Welcome to Echo Bazaar Wiki!

Hi, welcome to Echo Bazaar Wiki! Thanks for your edit to the Send him to the Surface to fetch a friend page.

Please leave me a message if I can help with anything!
Wikia (talk) 10:10, October 11, 2012 (UTC)

Location specific cards "Templates".

== Opportunity cards only available at @==

*[[]]

*[[]]

*[[]]

*[[]]

*[[]]
Nedemmons (talk) 15:52, October 18, 2012 (UTC)

"Failure added. Also, picture layout went wrong."

I see what happened. I did the same thing when I started editing:

User talk:Varissaelle#Yay, you fixed my butterfaced page!

When you click the (Add) "Photo" button from the Visual editing screen, there's a compulsion to choose left or right. It's fine to use it. Just remember to remove the alignment in Source afterwards, and you're set. :)
ZDee (talk) 04:40, May 20, 2013 (UTC)

"Once you have an item, selling zero item result in message."

Well spotted! This will make hunting for those messages much easier.
Vae Victis (talk) 08:51, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

Bugged storylet + "Rival E" ?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/97833234@N07/9100190209/

( How do I use this Flickr pic thingies without directly uploading that on this wiki? All my attempt led to this . Ugh.)

Note:  I had 55 The Airs of the Forgotten Quarter at that time.
Nedemmons (talk) 17:35, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

I think you still upload it to the wiki in a automated fashion. So you might as well upload it, really.
Aximillio (talk) 18:04, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

Hearing Rumours of Orthos & Virginia's Progress

Thank you for all your contributions to the Forgotten Quarter expeditions!

I totally should not be online right now, but I feel the need to explain this to everyone:

The Story Qualities "Hearing Rumours of Orthos' Progress" and "Hearing Rumours of Virginia's Progress" are the new names, but the old names are still being used as links and category names.

Category:Orthos' Progress

Category:Virginia's Progress

All the relevant pages should be updated, yes! :-] This is how it's typically done:

1) Make a new category page using the new name.

2) Visit the old category page and locate all its related links. (See the deep green tool bar at the bottom of every wikia page? Hover your mouse over "My Tools" and click "What links here" from the options that pop up.)

3) Visit every page on the "What links here" list. For every page, delete the old category name and add the new category name.

4) Mark the old category page for deletion by entering its source code and adding the word "{{delete}}" (no quote marks) somewhere, preferably the very top of the page.

5) An administrator should notice the marked page and delete it to tidy up the wiki. (Well, after they double check to find no pages mistakenly link to the old category.)

In this case, we'd have to make two new category pages. The steps are still the same. I am not abandoning ship, but I must leave now! >_< If you don't get to it, Nedemmons, I or someone else will soon enough! But now you all know the fire drill!
ZDee (talk) 01:42, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

Oops. I thought that Orthos's Progress in New expeditions was different from Orthos's Progress during Correspondence research. Thanks for helpful advices.

Which is nice, because I love seeing things getting re-used and stories getting interlinked. Sadly, I'm merely unexperienced editor without meaningful wiki-fu, so I'll have to leave them for others. Also, thank you for constantly polishing my shoddy job. 
Nedemmons (talk) 08:01, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

"Which is nice, because I love seeing things getting re-used and stories getting interlinked."

I feel the same way. It makes the world much more cohesive. :)
ZDee (talk) 19:20, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

"Archaeologist hasn't changed, because it's higher than 2. Also, what the heck is ' ?"

Wait, what? Where did you see this?

Do you mean the source code '<b>[Quality Name]</b>'? It's discussed in the Comments here:

User_blog:ZDee/Are we 'occasionally seen at Mr Wines' Revels' or not??

EDIT: I found what you were talking about. I don't know why the numbered code suddenly appeared, but I erased them. Maybe Wikia was behaving oddly.

EDIT2: "what the heck is these

'

things?"

Okay, that code shouldn't crop up either! You removed them, so it's fine now... It's probably more Wikia misbehavior. It rarely happens, but I guess you happened to edit during a time period when its system was acting strange.
ZDee (talk) 22:10, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

Licensing Info

Little reminder:

When photos are uploaded, please click "More options" and select the proper Licensing information. Choose "This is copyrighted, but use is permitted by the license holder". :)

By the way, where did you get the "St_mountains.png" file? Aximillio wants to know and so do I, actually. It's not located in the usual FL icon folder.
ZDee (talk) 21:48, June 27, 2013 (UTC)

I believe the art is from the Silver Tree. It's probably in a separate icon folder specifically for that world.
Delmar Tramontane (talk) 00:28, June 28, 2013 (UTC)

Ahhh, that sounds about right. Silver Tree art used in FL is usually uploaded and linked to the FL folder, so I was surprised not to find it there. (I was searching for a "St_mountainssmall.png" file.)
ZDee (talk) 00:46, June 28, 2013 (UTC)

A departure from the norm is definitely surprising. I wonder if they simply forgot to that this with this art, or decided it wasn't necessary.
Delmar Tramontane (talk) 00:51, June 28, 2013 (UTC)

Hrm, it could be a temporary placeholder. Mister Arendt, FL's head artist, might be changing the Silver Tree "St_mountains" artwork slightly for FL's use but hasn't finished...so they're using the Silver Tree icon link for now? Like with Virginia's revised content in the FQ, the older succubus icon was in place before the release of her new deviless icon. Y'know the one of which I speak? The blonde one who looks like a fiery and leopard pillbox-adorned model torn from the catwalks of Christian Dior? Yeah, her.
ZDee (talk) 01:10, June 28, 2013 (UTC)

That seems plausible. Will have to keep an eye on the image to see if it changes.
Delmar Tramontane (talk) 01:31, June 28, 2013 (UTC)

I found this from the linked action in Fallen London - I think its different art style serve as connection between age of Silver Tree and age of Fallen London.
Nedemmons (talk) 08:53, June 28, 2013 (UTC)

Look like there's some kind of change going on this wiki.

I'm not sure what's going on, but it seems like some tools and frames will be changed. Or something like that. I'm not really sure. Seeing recent wiki activity looks like it's getting full-on overhaul.
Nedemmons (talk) 07:29, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

What? What tools? What frames? Huh?
DrinkKryptonite (talk) 07:54, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

Not really overhaul, more like cleaning up. :)

If some changes are confusing you, feel free to ask whoever made those changes.
DrinkKryptonite (talk) 08:10, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

it's always like 80% maintenance, 10% reconstruction, and 10% new pages for new content 'round here. my first wiki occupation was a janitor...and that really hasn't changed. i just own a bigger broom and bucket these days.
ZDee (talk) 08:58, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

"Something is keep going wrong, things keep goes wrong."

You seem to be the only unfortunate editor running into these formatting issues where random code slips into the source code when the bold and paragraph stuff is being updated. Why is that?

A) Your wikia account is haunted.

B) Wikia enjoys pulling such pranks on you.

C) You're editing differently enough to cause code mutations.

D) None of the above?!

Seriously, what's going on? I'm not blaming you. The issue isn't even particularly bad so much as puzzling. It's got me very curious about how you edit. Are you using a mobile device like a tablet, which then opens a different editor screen? Do you copy content from FL, paste it into a Word sheet program of sorts, recopy it from there, and then repaste it into the wikia editor screen? A step-by-step video would be nice.

If I can't help you, please try contacting other wikia members or staff:

1) send a bug report

http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Contact/bug

2) post a question at the wikia forum

http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Forum
ZDee (talk) 08:42, July 9, 2013 (UTC)

I don't know. I uses normal computer and normal internet explorer, but stuff like that keeps happen. Sometimes, eyerything goes ok, but sometimes, just checking Visual mode make these stray code reappear. And if my method is causing problem, it should effect everyone who uses quicklist.
Nedemmons (talk) 12:09, July 9, 2013 (UTC)

You mean you copy the source code from Quicklist and paste it directly into the page you're editing? That sounds fairly normal. I'm somewhat surprised you use it at all... I edited Quicklist the other day in Firefox and it took 5 or so minutes to load the Source screen. It even froze Firefox while it was loading! How long does it take you to load Quicklist in Source mode?

It seems as if your wikia account is somehow bugged. I strongly suggest you write a bug report to the wikia staff in the first link I provided. Maybe they can help you. If not, you could try making a new account? Actually, why don't we test if it's the "Nedemmons" account? The next time you edit something here, log out and edit anonymously. If it works okay, try it 9 more times anonymously.

Have you also tried editing in a different browser? Maybe IE isn't very compatible with wikia's editor screen.
ZDee (talk) 12:30, July 9, 2013 (UTC)

I get stray code as well, sometimes. It only happens when you hit "publish" and usually when I click "preview" before publishing. It may also be connected to the visual mode. You know that you triggered the bug if the categories on the right side of the article disappear and instead you get the categories inserted into the body of the article at the bottom (you get those little green jigsaw icons that symbolize templates).

My solution is to simply go back one page (the edits are not reversed), retype the edit description (which is forgotten when you go back) and republish. The problem never appears twice in a row.

System specs: Win7, firefox v22. Add-ons: Ghostery, Adblock Plus, Shockwave Flash (latest) and Shockwave for Director Netscape.
Vae Victis (talk) 12:37, July 9, 2013 (UTC)

This has happened to you, too?! Anyone else, then? I haven't personally encountered this sort of situation before.

"It only happens when you hit 'publish' and usually when I click 'preview' before publishing."

I click Preview 99/100 times before I click Publish, seriously. I thought everyone did that...?!

"You know that you triggered the bug if the categories on the right side of the article disappear and instead you get the categories inserted into the body of the article at the bottom"

I've seen this "category jump" occur a handful of times. I was still able to publish the edits okay, but from now on I'll check the code and not just the published page afterward.

My system: Windows 7. Firefox 22.0 with Adblock Plus add-on. Flash and Java plugins are both up-to-date.
ZDee (talk) 13:04, July 9, 2013 (UTC)

"I thought everyone did that...?!"

When one makes small changes in visual mode one gets into the habit of not always hitting "preview" before publishing. Which is why Wikia produces little bugs to punish people for such insolence. Wikia is like a mad deity.

"I've seen this "category jump" occur a handful of times."

I get this bug roughly every 20th edit on my user page (I rarely preview it and almost never edit it in source). It doesn't do anything because I don't have categories on my page and I publish regardless of the bug, but I know it still triggers because I get to see the warning that accompanies it. Maybe the bug works differently for different pages, or doesn't like particular templates? A "category jump" on some pages is fairly harmless, but some pages really get messed up?

Another thing that may trigger the bug is how long a page is being edited. My user page gets the most bugs, and it's also the page that I like to leave in edit form without publishing. So I may play FL in the morning, start editing my CPs, keep the edit unpublished, then come back after many hours and hit "publish". When I do that the likelihood of seeing the bug is the highest.

So the question to Nedemmons is how long does it take you to make an edit? Do you leave it open for a long time or publish instantly?
Vae Victis (talk) 15:15, July 9, 2013 (UTC)

"Another thing that may trigger the bug is how long a page is being edited."

Hrm, maybe. I rarely pass 10 minutes with an open page. I usually complete my edits in 1-5 minutes. Even then, out of the 9,000 edits I've made, I've probably had 100-200 individual sessions with pages where I spent at least an hour in the editor screen and nothing amiss occurred.

If the problem is related to a long length of time, then it's probably a wikia error from its cache system. If you're a registered editor (it doesn't happen when you're anonymous?) working in the editor screen, wikia will temporarily save your changes in a cache. After you publish your changes, your personal cache is cleared for your next session. Maybe the cache gets confused when the editor screen is opened "too long" and injects stray code during the publishing process.

I strongly suggest the two of you file a bug report with screenshots and some links of the pages where these errors transpired. You can browse a page's History for those. For instance:

Special:Diff/57526/prev
ZDee (talk) 00:49, July 10, 2013 (UTC)

I always edit when I'm registered, so I can't verify if it ever happens to anon editors. Irregardless, I think you've found the cause - the "cache" explanation sounds right.

I'll wait a bit to see if I can get a good screenshot before filing a report. I want to capture the little error message that pops out and, if I'm lucky, the category icons moving into the article.
Vae Victis (talk) 10:34, July 10, 2013 (UTC)

Sent the screenshot with the bug report and got a reply: Essentially, buggy edit pages that are left open for too long is a known issue that they're working on. The moving categories is a new thing and will be sent to the technical staff. No word on the random code, though.
Vae Victis (talk) 23:24, July 22, 2013 (UTC)

I think it might be linked to visual editing? I've had this bug occur once or twice or so quite a while back. But as my long edits (and most others) are almost exclusively in source, it usually doesn't target me. That being said - I probably would've forgotten about it if it happened. I'm pretty good at forgetting stuff I'm not super-excited about
Aximillio (talk) 23:56, July 22, 2013 (UTC)

Maybe we should mention this in Editing Guidelines. Recommend people not to linger too long in the editor screen? What does "too long" equate to, anyway? Vae, did Support tell you if it was 30 minutes, 1 hour, 3 hours or whatever that's "too long"?

"I think it might be linked to visual editing?"

I spend most of my time in Source, but I do flip back and forth between Source and Visual mode frequently. When I open the editor screen, it automatically starts in Visual mode. I usually add templates, browse photos, or glance at changes in the Visual side -- briefly but I'm there doing stuff.

"I'm pretty good at forgetting stuff I'm not super-excited about"

Seriously? o.O You don't strike me as that sort of person. Does this mean you get ultra hyped about editing?
ZDee (talk) 01:00, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

No... It means I know it has to be done at some point...
Aximillio (talk) 01:15, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

Nedemmons mentions using IE; there is a known bug in IE 9 where it includes 'sab' attributes in a particular WYSIWYG HTML editor. Not sure if this is the editor used on Wikia.

I occasionally get the category jump error, usually when the page has been open a while. I don't think it's related to visual editing, since I do so little of it :)
Jemann (talk) 01:18, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

For now, I just gave up on that and is using chrome.
Nedemmons (talk) 02:17, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

ZDee: The support didn't say. "Support" don't really know anything: They just handle the reports and feedback.

From my experience you can linger more than 30 min., but should publish within an hour. The bug isn't consistent, but the longer you wait the higher the probability of it occurring.
Vae Victis (talk) 12:11, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

Opening a Bundle of Oddities

There's a storylet and a (Circumstance) quality which share the same name, right? If so, I'll add (Storylet) to the storylet page to differentiate it from the quality category page (and its redirect).

EDIT: Ah, so it is... I just read your comments here.
ZDee (talk) 19:06, July 19, 2013 (UTC)

Some thing to note here: I got this from Speak for a little while and ask them to disperse, but cannot remember exact value ( 7- related? ). This is reasult:

=== Too late! ===

Alexis made me.

The Starveling Cat! The Starveling Cat! It leaps from the box like an acrobat! The Starveling Cat! The Starveling Cat! It claws at your face like a rabid bat! The Starveling Cat! The Starveling Cat! If only we could stamp it flat! The Starveling Cat! The Starveling Cat! Don't expect it to stay on the mat!

You've gained 1 x Starveling Cat

You've gained 1 x Appalling Secret

Your 'Opening a Bundle of Oddities' Quality has gone!

Wounds is increasing...

Nightmares is increasing...

You've gained 1 x Tale of Terror!!
Nedemmons (talk) 09:15, July 26, 2013 (UTC)

O_o

...Lucky you?? Terrifying, really...
ZDee (talk) 18:19, July 26, 2013 (UTC)

Are you a Seeker or have some unusually high Menaces? Are you highly Peckish?

It's really strange that a mid-level card would punish a player like this. Also the range seems off by quite a margin from the usual Oddities range for that card.
Vae Victis (talk) 23:46, July 26, 2013 (UTC)

It's pretty funny, though... That darn cat ends up crammed into the strangest places! It's probably a rare success bundle with a short value range. I suspect the Blemmigan Secretary runs along the same lines.
ZDee (talk) 00:22, July 27, 2013 (UTC)

Vae Victis wrote:

Are you a Seeker or have some unusually high Menaces? Are you highly Peckish?
It's really strange that a mid-level card would punish a player like this. Also the range seems off by quite a margin from the usual Oddities range for that card.

Nope. This was just random from my sub - so unexpected that I only managed to capture this fragment.
Nedemmons (talk) 03:21, July 27, 2013 (UTC)

That's it then - I won't be doing that card ever again! o_o
Vae Victis (talk) 10:13, July 27, 2013 (UTC)

Nedemmons, thank you for filling in the Blemmigan Secretary option!

Some questions:

# The action icon for Something forbidden is Ladybones Road?
# Is the icon for Something scholarly the "library.png" or "bookbrown.png"?
# The value range for Something bloodstained is 965 to 1007? It's also bugged to give you 0 Stolen Correspondence? :P
ZDee (talk) 23:42, July 30, 2013 (UTC)

ZDee wrote:

Nedemmons, thank you for filling in the Blemmigan Secretary option!
Some questions:

# The action icon for Something forbidden is Ladybones Road?
# Is the icon for Something scholarly the "library.png" or "bookbrown.png"?
# The value range for Something bloodstained is 965 to 1007? It's also bugged to give you 0 Stolen Correspondence? :P

I Remembered! 1. Yes! ladybones.png

2. bookbrown.png

3. Yes - There was two option at that value, which was suprising. Also, both attempt at Something bloodstained is very disappointing. By the way, that was two reasult in one - First (that gave 0 letter) was second try without Stolen Correspondence in hand, and the "Stolen Correspondence remains unchanged, at 128" was my first try.
Nedemmons (talk) 01:50, July 31, 2013 (UTC)

At Oddities 1008, you had two options? "Something bloodstained" and "Something...purple?" were available to you? I guess both options are simultaneously present in case people don't want a pet Blemmigan...

You've probably already sent a bug report to FBG, but if you haven't, please send one about the 0 Stolen Correspondence.
ZDee (talk) 02:25, July 31, 2013 (UTC)

ZDee wrote:

At Oddities 1008, you had two options? "Something bloodstained" and "Something...purple?" were available to you? I guess both options are simultaneously present in case people don't want a pet Blemmigan...
You've probably already sent a bug report to FBG, but if you haven't, please send one about the 0 Stolen Correspondence.

I didn't sent the bug report - I'll try to muster up time and strength, but not sure when will it be.
Nedemmons (talk) 02:28, July 31, 2013 (UTC)

Out of curiosity, does the Blemmigan Secretary have a Sell price? I am thinking not...which is why "Something bloodstained" is there as a profitable alternative.
ZDee (talk) 02:35, July 31, 2013 (UTC)

Possibly the Blemmigan option is locked with a blemmigan?
Aximillio (talk) 17:08, August 2, 2013 (UTC)

Possibly, but that's rather difficult to check... I'm loathe to trade my precious coffee with March any further.
ZDee (talk) 22:01, August 2, 2013 (UTC)

By the way, anyone want to trade 10 Fate with Stravelling cats? Not sure about value of straveling cat, but I need more Fate( coffee ) for deeper understanding of "Opening a Bundle of Oddities". There are at least 2~3 option missing, and there must be more.
Nedemmons (talk) 15:04, August 3, 2013 (UTC)

Does anyone think that stories that give/take tiny "symbolic" Item should be included in Category:Item Sources/Use ?

Several storylets offers items in "symbolic" amount - For example, see "Take the Gracious Widow up on her offer" or "Look into the Provost's activities" - It would make sense if they are rare item, but I think that including such triffles only complicate whole issue for people who actually want to know about Item's Sources or Use.

...Maybe I'm unsealing can of worms, but I really want to talk about it.
Nedemmons (talk) 13:18, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

Category "Item Sources" can be quite the double-edged blade. For readers, it complicates matters when they want to track down the optimal grind options. For editors, it's a necessary index at times when they must locate pages for mass revision. One occasionally undermines the other; I know this from much unwanted personal experience.

Putting tables or lists with the highest #'ed options on the Sources pages of commonly used items has been suggested before. I've spoken with Jemann and Aximillio about it, and we all green-lit it. Other projects took up our immediate attention, so that idea got sidelined, but it's still on our mental To Do lists. As alternative medicine, Urthdigger and Flyte have both volunteered to write guides for item gathering. :)

Besides, at what point should you deem the amount insignificant -- or as you say, "symbolic" -- enough not to use the category? There are many items, particularly the upper tier conversion items, that are considered plentiful at 1-10. You would risk someone not marking an action page with "[Item] Sources" if the reward number for Dreadful Surmises was 3?! :P

EDIT: I hold the same thoughts (except guides) for category "Item Uses", as well.
ZDee (talk) 14:46, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

ZDee wrote:

Category "Item Sources" can be quite the double-edged blade. For readers, it complicates matters when they want to track down the optimal grind options. For editors, it's a necessary index at times when they must locate pages for mass revision. One occasionally undermines the other; I know this from much unwanted personal experience.
Putting tables or lists with the highest #'ed options on the Sources pages of commonly used items has been suggested before. I've spoken with Jemann and Aximillio about it, and we all green-lit it. Other projects took up our immediate attention, so that idea got sidelined, but it's still on our mental To Do lists. As alternative medicine, Urthdigger and Flyte have both volunteered to write guides for item gathering. :)

Besides, at what point should you deem the amount insignificant -- or as you say, "symbolic" -- enough not to use the category? There are many items, particularly the upper tier conversion items, that are considered plentiful at 1-10. You would risk someone not marking an action page with "[Item] Sources" if the reward number for Dreadful Surmises was 3?! :P

EDIT: I hold the same thoughts (except guides) for category "Item Uses", as well.

It's 2:12 AM here, so I'll only answer to last quuestion for now: I already said "It would make sense if they are rare item" up there, on line 2. Of course I thought about it.
Nedemmons (talk) 17:14, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

That's what I'm trying to say. The term "rare", how should the readers and editors interpret it? We both have characters of PoSI status, so our notions of "rare" probably match; I would enjoy reading Item Sources/Uses pages cleared of trash options. But there are many users of the wiki who are low or mid level. My "trash" could be their "treasure". If I make a new character or restart a current one, I would need to dig up trash, anyway. :P

Rough outline of the tables I mentioned:

| Reward | Title | Level | Notes |

| 2000 | Big Booty | 90 | R |

| 1500 | Ten Trunks | 100 |POSI OT|

| 1000 | Hidey Hole | 85 | F |

(Notes will also have important unlock requirements like high connection levels, specific story qualities, and so on. And, yes, they'll hold more than 3 rows...)

F = failure

R = rare success

OT = playable only one time

POSI = Person of Some Importance requirement



Commonly sought items with a plethora of linked pages will get tables. (Later on, shorter pages will simply get bullet lists.) Both Reward and Level columns will be sortable by ascending and descending values. Title column will be sortable alphabetically by A-Z and Z-A. Vae Victis experimented successfully with sortable columns here:

User:Vae Victis/Sortable Bundle of Oddoties

Sortability is for the sake of helping players at any level speedily locate what they seek.

When the idea was first brought up months ago, Varissaelle was the only editor who could make custom tables. Now we have several editors who are familiar with coding them. :D
ZDee (talk) 03:36, September 9, 2013 (UTC)

If we get time, we'll make a best item grind list.

Something like http://echobazaar.wikidot.com/end-game-grinding. I updated it a little, but it's still stale for the most part. Not sure when, though. Due to some stuff and stuff, I have stuff to do.
Nedemmons (talk) 19:27, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

Raising Connections Guide

Thanks for your contributions to the Raising Connections guide.  I wasn't aware that the cp changes for visiting acquaintances had been increased, and adding options for those without connection pets is an excellent idea.  Perhaps those should go in their own subsection, under General Methods.  What do you think?

I'm going to revert a few of your changes, though, and I thought it would be best to explain why here.

First, the guide is only for repeatable options -- so selling the location of the Nadir, for example, is excluded.

Second, the wiki doesn't cover Fate-locked content, and I think your references to the Soul Trade are probably too explicit.

Third, I don't think we should cover options which are strictly worse than an alternative -- the connected pet option for Bohemians, for example, gives fewer cp than composing poetry, and also costs Whispered Secrets.  I don't think gambling Masters connections at the Carnival should be covered, for more or less the same reason: it's worse than the alternative of doing nothing, since it reduces your Connected on average.

Fourth, in the interests of clarity, usability and brevity, it seems to me better to exclude Carnival options from the Specific Connections section, since they're already covered in the General Methods section.  If you'd like to investigate the exact number of cp these options give, though, and add the values to the General Methods section, that would be extremely helpful; unfortunately my Connected values are too high to test them, and I don't want to get rid of them just for that purpose.

If you disagree with my views on these matters, please let me know either here or on my Wall -- I imagine the best way to proceed would be to solicit the views of the wider wiki community, especially the more experienced editors.
Sebastian Flyte (talk) 17:44, September 12, 2013 (UTC)

Nope, you're right. Especially about Carnival section, I was unsure if writing them for mere  emphasis was right, and I'm glad that you polished my addition. Of the Fate option, I saw Flute street one on that page and thought this was exception. Sorry!
Nedemmons (talk) 05:01, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

This is a general guide for low level to high level players, and it's posted on a public platform.

That sums up why I had to remove the Nadir-selling and fate-locked tips.

Specifics:

1) "General" means keeping the page clean and simple to memorize with repeatable options that are widely available to the player base. One-time-use options should not be included.

I understand why you'd want to list such options for Connected: the Masters since it's so difficult to raise. With this particular case, use your best judgment.

"The best way to gain this Connection is to progress through story as Master's worker - Suggest he take a more material view on The Loquacious Vicar's Great Work; Confront Unfinished pair for Mr.Pages; Follow Mr. Wine's order against F.F. Gebrandt; Betray the Cheesemonger to the Masters of the Bazaar; Frame innocent scholar for murder and have no guilt; and such."

Put those actions under an Expandible/Collapsible subsection in a neat bullet list format. Concisely note why they're hidden.

2) "Low level to high level" means leaving out unrelated and spoileriffic details like the Nadir-selling rewards. Other than the fact that many low/mid level readers may have just learned that they can sell the Cave of the Nadir's location, they now also know to whom. For what. And for how much. On a guide about raising Contact CP. That's kinda silly. Please don't write heavy spoilers for such high end content.

3) "Public platform" means that I'm sighing all over the fricking place. I have incredible difficulty believing that any of the editors who read Nedemmons' fate-locked bits thought that they were 100% acceptable.

"Of the Fate option, I saw Flute street one on that page and thought this was exception."

Flute Street is merely the name of a fate-locked area. Its name also isn't self-explanatory.

"Joining [story faction] give special card to gain fine amount of this connection by giving [this specific item] and [that specific item], but they are (Fate Locked)" is the sort of thing that blurs and pushes against the wiki's and FBG's joint policy against posting fate-locked narrative content. Anyone who edits here shares joint responsibility for upholding the policy.

Instead of FBG's hard way of placing good faith in us to be sensible and dependable, what's the easy way for them? They don't allow us to post ANY fate-locked content (no items, quality descriptions, pictures, and so on). What's an even easier way? They shut down the wiki. This isn't a passive aggressive threat or metaphor. It's the full reality.

Thanks for reading.

EDIT: I realize that Nedemmons is volunteering here with his free time to help the wiki and the player base. As a fellow editor and wiki user, I am quite grateful. Regardless, this is a very difficult time. All the wiki's contributors are on equal footing as editors. (Jemann, Aximillio and I may be administrative staff, but that simply means we're editors with a few extra buttons to press.) The wiki really needs all its editors to make secure judgment calls on content.
ZDee (talk) 19:00, September 17, 2013 (UTC)

For consistency's sake, please use either "cp" or "CP" but not both in the guide. Since Flyte wrote most of it, s/he should decide.
ZDee (talk) 19:05, September 17, 2013 (UTC)

ZDee wrote:

This is a general guide for low level to high level players, and it's posted on a public platform.
That sums up why I had to remove the Nadir-selling and fate-locked tips.

Specifics:

1) "General" means keeping the page clean and simple to memorize with repeatable options that are widely available to the player base. One-time-use options should not be included.

I understand why you'd want to list such options for Connected: the Masters since it's so difficult to raise. With this particular case, use your best judgment.

"The best way to gain this Connection is to progress through story as Master's worker - Suggest he take a more material view on The Loquacious Vicar's Great Work; Confront Unfinished pair for Mr.Pages; Follow Mr. Wine's order against F.F. Gebrandt; Betray the Cheesemonger to the Masters of the Bazaar; Frame innocent scholar for murder and have no guilt; and such."

Put those actions under an Expandible/Collapsible subsection in a neat bullet list format. Concisely note why they're hidden.

2) "Low level to high level" means leaving out unrelated and spoileriffic details like the Nadir-selling rewards. Other than the fact that many low/mid level readers may have just learned that they can sell the Cave of the Nadir's location, they now also know to whom. For what. And for how much. On a guide about raising Contact CP. That's kinda silly. Please don't write heavy spoilers for such high end content.

3) "Public platform" means that I'm sighing all over the fricking place. I have incredible difficulty believing that any of the editors who read Nedemmons' fate-locked bits thought that they were 100% acceptable.

"Of the Fate option, I saw Flute street one on that page and thought this was exception."

Flute Street is merely the name of a fate-locked area. Its name also isn't self-explanatory.

"Joining [story faction] give special card to gain fine amount of this connection by giving [this specific item] and [that specific item], but they are (Fate Locked)" is the sort of thing that blurs and pushes against the wiki's and FBG's joint policy against posting fate-locked narrative content. Anyone who edits here shares joint responsibility for upholding the policy.

Instead of FBG's hard way of placing good faith in us to be sensible and dependable, what's the easy way for them? They don't allow us to post ANY fate-locked content (no items, quality descriptions, pictures, and so on). What's an even easier way? They shut down the wiki. This isn't a passive aggressive threat or metaphor. It's the full reality.

Thanks for reading.

EDIT: I realize that Nedemmons is volunteering here with his free time to help the wiki and the player base. As a fellow editor and wiki user, I am quite grateful. Regardless, this is a very difficult time. All the wiki's contributors are on equal footing as editors. (Jemann, Aximillio and I may be administrative staff, but that simply means we're editors with a few extra buttons to press.) The wiki really needs all its editors to make secure judgment calls on content.

I apologize for my thoughtlessness. I'll keep these in mind - Especially the part about writing about FATE options, unnecessary details, using Expandible/Collapsible sections for spoilers. I'll also read your Editing guidelines and try to understand this icon list format thing.

PS: I prefer to use "(# CP)", but if Flyte think I should change on this, that's ok. It's his writing afterall.
Nedemmons (talk) 10:40, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

Ordinarily, I wouldn't make such a long and standoffish speech about a casual mishap...but you probably know that. Didn't feel good to write it! :P

The past few weeks have been -- and the next few months will be -- a critical time for the wiki. The walls here have eyes and ears, yes, but they're generally benevolent. Let's not give them opportunities to look at us otherwise. ;) I typically prefer to keep everything wiki-related transparent and accessible to everybody, but matters with FBG haven't been fully resolved yet (though they should be soon!), so I'm using discretion for now. I will go into specifics on Why's and How's with a news post sometime in the next few weeks; there are technical difficulties that J, A and I are currently trying to work through before then. So, like, don't freak; ship ain't gonna sink.

"I prefer to use "(# CP)", but if Flyte think I should change on this, that's ok."

Well...if we all voted Flyte off the island, we could change "cp" to "CP" without his consent...but it's better to keep as many spare rations editors around as possible.
ZDee (talk) 15:07, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, my bad.  I should have made the changes I described in a timely fashion, rather than wondering off for a few days.

I don't have strong feelings about 'cp'/'CP'; if 'CP' is more usual in other guides, please feel free to standardise.

In general, my inclinations and commitments probably make me better suited to occasional bursts of activity, rather than long-term curating.
Sebastian Flyte (talk) 17:40, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

Haha, I think you've described every contributor. :) We're all volunteers here. FL is awesome so we try to make the surrounding community awesome, as well. Just guard your backs and the backs of your fellow editors if possible. ...That makes it sound as if we're targeted for stabbings or something...which is not the case! But, yeah, watch after each other's work. Even I fuck up, so if it happens, please point it out or correct my mistakes. That's it. Don't lose sleep over it!

I'm cool with either "cp" or "CP". Subjectively, I don't mind; the guide works great for me with either or both ways. Objectively, choose one standard for the guide so as not to risk confusing the readers, and for the aesthetics of reading comprehension.

I will not punish you if you decide to go with "cp"! I'm not anyone's boss here, just that irritating colleague who gives constructive criticism at every turn who is probably in danger of not receiving a X-mas card this year. :P

Eventually, the Guides category page will be moved to the top green navigation bar as a spotlighted link. I like detailed and involved guides (they're usually long), and I don't care if various spoilers are included; my personal preferences don't align well with the wiki, though. The wiki gets a constant stream of players new to FL. They're very likely to read the Guides. Plus, many (at least 25%, possibly verging on 50%) of the readers browse the wiki with small screens like cellphones or tablets. Keep those people in mind when you write/edit your guides. :)
ZDee (talk) 19:52, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

-54 cp isn't *that* strange, when you consider =)

55 cp is level 10. Assuming you have exactly that, you'll have your quality reduced to 1, rather than completely obliterated. Item conversions use the same drain: Level 6 -20 cp to level 1 and level 3 -5 Cp to level 1

Btw, thanks for adding those images. In the future, if you could add FL images to the "this is copyrighted, but use is permitted..." licencing option, that'd be cool of you. That categorises it under 'Game Files'. We use the 'Wiki Files' category for images made for the wiki.

Don't worry if you forget, though - we can easily add it afterwards =)
Aximillio (talk) 18:43, October 15, 2013 (UTC)

Gillsing, Aximillio is talking to you in the first paragraph. XD
ZDee (talk) 02:07, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

Um, what are you talking about? Is this about Irrigo drop thing? Or something else?
Nedemmons (talk) 05:28, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

Oh dear, I've put that first paragraph on the wrong wall. I guess that's what happens when you try to think several thoughts at once, my apoligies.
Aximillio (talk) 20:38, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

I just stumbled upon this while scanning the "recent activity" list for no particular reason. And while I did consider that 10->1 thing, it didn't occur to me that the option itself unlocked at 10. I see now how it's meant to take away as much as possible for the lowest level possible, while still keeping the card unlocked, just as you said.
Gillsing (talk) 21:40, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

Images

I see you've added this image and others like it. Where in the game did you see it?
Vae Victis (talk) 21:15, November 22, 2013 (UTC)

Um, it was just clelbration of F.F.Mug merch. not in-game stuff. Sorry...
Nedemmons (talk) 03:48, November 23, 2013 (UTC)

This wiki is viewed in different parts of the world, where laws regarding illegal substances as well as their "advertisement" or anything that might be considered as such vary greatly. In some cases the punishments can be draconian.

Putting this here, on this wiki, particularly now when FBG is paying much more attention to what is happening here, is mindbogglingly foolish.

I've deleted the images. In the future be more mindful.
Vae Victis (talk) 00:19, November 25, 2013 (UTC)

Vae Victis wrote:

This wiki is viewed in different parts of the world, where laws regarding illegal substances as well as their "advertisement" or anything that might be considered as such vary greatly. In some cases the punishments can be draconian.
Putting this here, on this wiki, particularly now when FBG is paying much more attention to what is happening here, is mindbogglingly foolish.

I've deleted the images. In the future be more mindful.

Understood. I thought that Victorian relics would be excempt from such... but you're right, that was foolish.
Nedemmons (talk) 10:14, November 25, 2013 (UTC)

ATTENTION! ATTENTION! Useless Card reporting time! ATTENTION! ATTENTION!

http://community.failbettergames.com/topic5794-community-consultation-problematic-cards.aspx

You KNOW what to do! Everyone call to arms, time to report every annoying card you see!

Bringing Revolution / Cheesemonger no more / Artist & Artist's Model / and so on and so on!!!

PS: Would you mention thistopic, will you? I'll be very grateful if you do.
Nedemmons (talk) 11:25, November 25, 2013 (UTC)

"Hmm. Should I list very very minor common item gain/change to Categories too? I think it inconveniences people looking for reliable way to of said item..."

At least for lose x of item where there is no relevant unlock. You're not too interested in those in either case, unless it's an item/quality you can't sell on the Bazaar. The other use may be for editors, but 'what links here' is generally superior.

That being said, I think item gains should be considered on their own. It's much more interesting to link a storylet which gives you 10 proscribed material than one that randomly takes away those 10 material for no apparent reason. Not necessarily saying those are always needed, but at least they're generally more useful.
Aximillio (talk) 20:09, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

Eaten CIder

Have you tried seeking Mr. Eaten's name while in possession of the cider? Would its immortality effects shield you from the permakill option?
173.20.69.83 01:56, October 28, 2014 (UTC)

City Vices: What Profit?

Hi,

I saw that you're adding this card to the wiki. Since it's all Fate locked we need to remove it.

It's not a publicly-visible card with just the results locked. The card itself can only be seen by paying Fate and as such shouldn't be on the wiki (like e.g. A Dream of Blood, and other Fate dependent cards).
Adnoam (talk) 06:25, June 9, 2017 (UTC)

Aha... ok, then. Should have asked before wasting effort :P
Nedemmons (talk) 06:28, June 9, 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, I saw the effort you put into it. Much appreciated in any case!
Adnoam (talk) 06:30, June 9, 2017 (UTC)

Eat fine bread!

Hi,

In your recent edit to the page Eat fine bread! you've asked about the proper templates for rare vs. alt success.

In short: For rare success use {{[[Template:Rare_Success|Rare Success]]}}, for an alt success simply use {{[[Template:Success|Success]]}}.
Adnoam (talk) 12:05, December 12, 2017 (UTC)